Missed connection

[baiskeli]

@Vicegrip 148130 wrote:

Adding lights to the trail is not a very green or economical method. The infrastructure cost alone would be prohibitive and then you have to add in maintenance and power costs.

Not to mention massive light pollution.

[Tim Kelley]

@Vicegrip 148130 wrote:

I bought 20 blinkies, have tagged out all 19 that were good and still can’t see the bottom.

What’d you do with the broken one? We have a guy who fixes our duds for us if you want to add it to the bag of duds at the next trail giveaway.

[jabberwocky]

@TwoWheelsDC 148138 wrote:

It’s not pedestrians’ responsibility to wear reflective gear just so you can ride faster (but again, what about all those other hazards?).

Sure, they aren’t obligated to make themselves easier to see at night. Just like I’m not obligated to avoid shining 2000+lumens of light in their face. It would be nice if they were considerate enough to purchase a 10 dollar reflective vest to wear over their black sweatsuit, because then I could be considerate enough not to have to blind them, but here we are.

[dasgeh]

@Vicegrip 148130 wrote:

Adding lights to the trail is not a very green or economical method. The infrastructure cost alone would be prohibitive and then you have to add in maintenance and power costs.

@baiskeli 148139 wrote:

Not to mention massive light pollution.

What are your opinions on street lights? At some point, we say that safe transportation is worth the cost (in terms of capital and operating dollars, and to the environment).

[EasyRider]

@TwoWheelsDC 148138 wrote:

If you can’t see an unlit/unreflector’d pedestrian in time to avoid hitting them, how are you going to avoid deer, rabbits, squirrels, potholes, downed trees, loose gravel, frost heaves, and whatever other hazard you can think of doesn’t have lights or reflectors? If your light’s cone of illumination is shorter than the length required to a)see obstacle b)react to obstacle, and c)avoid obstacle, you’re riding too fast. Want to ride faster? Get a better light. It’s not pedestrians’ responsibility to wear reflective gear just so you can ride faster (but again, what about all those other hazards?).

As my forum handle might indicate, I’m not fast, and my interest in trail users wearing a modest amount of reflective material is about safety, not so I can ride faster. It’s so I can more easily avoid hitting someone, even at the humble speeds I travel. My own experience is that a reflector allows me to become aware of a pedestrian at a much greater distance than full illumination does, and my light is not a weak one. IMHO, a pedestrian wearing reflective strip or armband at night is the equivalent of a cyclist ringing a bell or calling a pass. It’s a safe, friendly, almost-no-cost way of saying “hi, I’m here, we’re out here together.”

[TwoWheelsDC]

@EasyRider 148147 wrote:

IMHO, a pedestrian wearing reflective strip or armband at night is the equivalent of a cyclist ringing a bell or calling a pass. It’s a safe, friendly, almost-no-cost way of saying “hi, I’m here, we’re out here together.”

I agree that, for recreational trail users (e.g. runners and fitness walkers), this is absolutely true and good. But plenty of non-recreational pedestrians use the trails, and I don’t think it’s realistic to expect someone walking to the airport, or walking from the metro in a suit, to throw on a reflective vest. Would we expect this of pedestrians in a crosswalk or on the sidewalk?

[ursus]

@dasgeh 148146 wrote:

What are your opinions on street lights? At some point, we say that safe transportation is worth the cost (in terms of capital and operating dollars, and to the environment).

Probably most people know this, but lights were installed on the W&OD in Herndon a year or two ago.

[TwoWheelsDC]

@jabberwocky 148145 wrote:

Sure, they aren’t obligated to make themselves easier to see at night. Just like I’m not obligated to avoid shining 2000+lumens of light in their face. It would be nice if they were considerate enough to purchase a 10 dollar reflective vest to wear over their black sweatsuit, because then I could be considerate enough not to have to blind them, but here we are.

Not every pedestrian on the trail is out for a jog. People use trails to walk places out of necessity….sometimes unexpectedly or just not very often.

[lordofthemark]

We need to decide which MUT segments are of such importance to ped transportation to be deemed sidewalk equivalents. Where they are, street lights make sense. Where they are not, wearing of reflective gear makes sense.

Note I also ride relatively slowly at all times, and at night ride more slowly – but even so ninja peds add stress, and rather more so than animals or potholes. At least to me.

[Judd]

@dasgeh 148146 wrote:

What are your opinions on street lights? At some point, we say that safe transportation is worth the cost (in terms of capital and operating dollars, and to the environment).

I’d get a major case of the sads if all of the sunrises, sunsets, full moons and twilight hours I’ve enjoyed on the MVT and WOD were drowned out by streetlights. I grew up in a place where streetlights were only on the corners of a lot of streets in town and preferred it. Given the choice I’d choose no streetlights.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[mstone]

@dasgeh 148146 wrote:

What are your opinions on street lights?

Hate them, and the light pollution. In some areas they are necessary, often for reasons having nothing to do with transportation, but they’re tremendously overused and too often installed cheaply in manner which does not minimize light pollution and glare (ironically making things less safe from a purely transportation perspective).

In many cases pedestrians demand streetlights because they feel safer, but they can end up making things less safe for pedestrians if poor design makes it harder for drivers to actually see people.

[EasyRider]

Putting aside that crosswalks and sidewalks are ordinarily lit and have the word “walk” in them …

I think I’ve steered the thread off course. Sorry. But I think I’ve stated my position plainly. In the winter months, avoiding ninjas (read: fitness oriented pedestrians without reflectors or lights) are a nightly occurrence for every bike commuter on this forum. The suddenly fallen tree … the out of towner who decided to walk down the MVT in the dark instead of taking a cab to DCA … the squirrel out past bedtime … these are comparatively rare. I appreciate hearing cyclists stick up for a pedestrian’s right to go unseen, but it’s not where I’m at. Over and out.

[Steve O]

This discussion has illuminated (haha) two groups: those who feel pedestrians are obligated to wear reflective clothing or otherwise make themselves visible and those who do not believe–although that would be great–they should be obligated to do so.

Fair enough. However, no matter how much we discuss this here, they will continue to exist and every October we will have this discussion all over again.
What can we do? I think vicegrip’s approach is good: do what you can, education and blinkies/reflectors, with the small number you have interactions with. It’s small, but if many of us help, then over time we may be able to influence the culture. That is, as peds see everyone else making themselves visible, they may decide to do it, too.
It doesn’t help us so much with the non-regulars, but it’s more useful than our whining about it among ourselves.

[cvcalhoun]

This is interesting to me, because I regularly ride a dark trail (the CCT) at night, and really don’t have an issue with ninja pedestrians. I use a powerful headlight, and have never had trouble seeing even those who don’t wear reflective garments or carry lights. And I’d want that headlight even if there were no pedestrians, because I would still have to see any obstacles on the path ahead before they were so close that I had to come to a screeching halt, and see the deer that almost always hang around at the bottom of the trail at night. Of course, I go relatively slowly, which helps with seeing people well before I’d run into them.

[Crickey7]

The CCT has good sight lines and no sharp curves. Were it more like other trails, I think I’d definitely be on the side of saying that other than as to these stretches of trail where people wander on and off the trail, and where it’s akin to a sidewalk, everywhere else everyone has a responsibility to make themselves visible.

[Author]

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