Missed connection

[lordofthemark]

A reflective vest is not necessary, but something brightly colored would help. Cyclists are required by law to have reflectors when riding after dark. I am not sure it is unreasonable to expect people walking on MUTs, generally less well lit than sidewalks, to not be all in black.

[Vicegrip]

@TwoWheelsDC 148088 wrote:

Well, it is essentially a sidewalk for many, as I said…it is a connection for pedestrians to get from one destination to another. I can’t expect someone walking to/from DCA or to/from Potomac Yard to put on a reflective vest before they step foot on the trail. Same with people at EFC walking along the W&OD.

Nope. Pedestrians walking normally do not cause “accidents.” Pedestrians are at the bottom of the “yield-to” chain, meaning the onus is always on those above them in the chain to yield/avoid accordingly.

They are using a path that also is used by design, by faster moving bikes. Both the walkers and riders are using the path as it is intended. Ninjas are inviting and extending risk to others by being effectively invisible. At a minimum they are being inconsiderate. In some places, such as the W&OD, they are breaking the established rules by going dark after dark. A MUP is at the same time a sidewalk and a road. All MUP users have to be considerate of the other forms of use. It is inconsiderate to force riders to use a walking pace just so some walkers can go ninja.

[dkel]

@TwoWheelsDC 148088 wrote:

Pedestrians are at the bottom of the “yield-to” chain, meaning the onus is always on those above them in the chain to yield/avoid accordingly.

Actually, horses are at the bottom. I’ve never seen a ninja horse, though…

[Mongo]

@dkel 148098 wrote:

Actually, horses are at the bottom. I’ve never seen a ninja horse, though…

Of course not, they’re Ninjas.

[dasgeh]

@Vicegrip 148094 wrote:

They are using a path that also is used by design, by faster moving bikes. Both the walkers and riders are using the path as it is intended. Ninjas are inviting and extending risk to others by being effectively invisible. At a minimum they are being inconsiderate. In some places, such as the W&OD, they are breaking the established rules by going dark after dark. A MUP is at the same time a sidewalk and a road. All MUP users have to be considerate of the other forms of use. It is inconsiderate to force riders to use a walking pace just so some walkers can go ninja.

This the problem. People walking should have a space where they can walk comfortably and safely in their normal clothes. That route must have LIGHTING.

People riding biking should have a space where they can bike at a reasonable average biking speed comfortably and safely with normal biking gear (which includes a good light).

Those two uses can co-exist but only where: (1) the sightlines are good; (2) the lighting is adequate; and (3) the width of the trail is adequate.

[Tania]

I’ve had many “wow, I would have bowled you over if I’d been going any faster” close calls these past few weeks. Mostly due to passing someone in my lane and not seeing someone in the oncoming lane because they’re not wearing reflective clothing and/or they’re not in the beam of my light. I don’t want to run into you but it’s tricky avoiding you if I don’t know you’re there.

The ninja population (all black clothing, zero reflective bits) is especially high west of East Falls Church on W&OD.

[huskerdont]

This occurred just this morning, coming down the Custis toward Rosslyn. A woman was standing on the ADA ramp waiting for the light to change. I have a 600-lumin Nightrider helmet light and saw her easily enough. The thing is, she has every right to stand there and in fact is expected to stand there. She should not have to wear reflective clothing to walk to work anymore than a cyclist who is hit by a driver should be blamed for not having x amount of reflective/neon clothing. I have received a complaint or two about my headlamp (my first post here was about an altercation with a runner), but without that good headlamp, some people would be almost impossible to see. Since we’re not likely to get segregated infra in my lifetime, I’ll use the bright light and continue to assume it’s my responsibility not to run anyone down, just as I would as a motorist.

[EasyRider]

I agree. Since not everyone is willing to take responsibility for their own visibilty, I use a brighter light and slow down.

But car drivers are required to use running lights and headlights between dusk and dawn. Cyclists have various lights/reflector requirements. Why shouldn’t pedestrians on the trail be asked to wear at least SOME modest amount of reflective material front and rear? I’m talking about a two dollar arm or ankle band.

[Vicegrip]

@dasgeh 148116 wrote:

This the problem. People walking should have a space where they can walk comfortably and safely in their normal clothes. That route must have LIGHTING.

People riding biking should have a space where they can bike at a reasonable average biking speed comfortably and safely with normal biking gear (which includes a good light).

Those two uses can co-exist but only where: (1) the sightlines are good; (2) the lighting is adequate; and (3) the width of the trail is adequate.

Adding lights to the trail is not a very green or economical method. The infrastructure cost alone would be prohibitive and then you have to add in maintenance and power costs. How wide the trail is would only help if there were separate lanes. Walkers and riders use the middle of each lane. Adding lights to all that use the trail when it is dark out is simple and distributed in cost to only those that use the trail during the dark hours. Adding a light to each person, even a little blinky makes YUGE difference.

As said the ninja population is just nuts on some sections of the WOD. I bought 20 blinkies, have tagged out all 19 that were good and still can’t see the bottom. While waiting at the gallow intersection I offered up a blinky to a repeat ninja and had him tell me that the proper fix is for the bike people to not have lights. He was in dark grey to black clothing with 0.0 reflective. I asked him if at least some reflective clothing would be a good compromise and he said it is up the the rider to not hit him. I asked if cars should not have lights and he said they need them because they move faster than bikes…….

[KLizotte]

@EasyRider 148127 wrote:

I agree. Since not everyone is willing to take responsibility for their own visibilty, I use a brighter light and slow down.

But car drivers are required to use running lights and headlights between dusk and dawn. Cyclists have various lights/reflector requirements. Why shouldn’t pedestrians on the trail be asked to wear at least SOME modest amount of reflective material front and rear? I’m talking about a two dollar arm or ankle band.

Because there are plenty of one time visitors (tourists) to the area for one. While I love it when folks wear lights and reflective bits I think it is incumbent upon me, the cyclist, to be the one who takes preventative action to avoid collisions. Quite frankly I think a lot of the night cyclists are going too fast and trying to maintain their daylight speeds. If you can’t see what is ahead of you, slow down. Keep in mind that the deer are out in full swing too and errant kids, dogs, and other critters of the night.

[Vicegrip]

@KLizotte 148131 wrote:

Because there are plenty of one time visitors (tourists) to the area for one. While I love it when folks wear lights and reflective bits I think it is incumbent upon me, the cyclist, to be the one who takes preventative action to avoid collisions. Quite frankly I think a lot of the night cyclists are going too fast and trying to maintain their daylight speeds. If you can’t see what is ahead of you, slow down. Keep in mind that the deer are out in full swing too and errant kids, dogs, and other critters of the night.

I agree with this to some extent. I also think it is up to all users to use the trails with common sense. No one is forcing you to use the trails. It is not a sidewalk. I ride accordingly after dark to protect myself and others. My only gripe is with those that should know better but place their own safety into the hands of others. Not too much to ask that other MUP users use the trails with some safety in mind too. Many times the only thing I see of a jogger is the government mandated reflective tab on running shoes. This is on someone that planned a run on the mup, not tourists getting airplane in the head photos at gravelly point.

[dasgeh]

@KLizotte 148131 wrote:

Quite frankly I think a lot of the night cyclists are going too fast and trying to maintain their daylight speeds. If you can’t see what is ahead of you, slow down. Keep in mind that the deer are out in full swing too and errant kids, dogs, and other critters of the night.

I agree with you, except if a path is not safe at, say, 12 MPH, then it’s not really useful as a bike path. In that case, we have to sure there are safe on-road routes that serve as alternatives. I don’t see those for the W&OD or even the Bluemont.

[Tania]

I have an 800 lumen light (that I usually run on medium, I forget what that output is), two Bike Arlington lights on the back of my helmet and an additional red light on my seatpost. Plus, nite ize spoke lights, Bike Arlington reflective ankle bands, a jacket (when it’s cool enough) that is ENTIRELY reflective, reflective tape on my backpack, a reflective Bike Arlington hang tag on my backpack zipper, reflective stickers on my helmet, reflective stickers on my saddle bags and then neon blue LED arm bands. Is that Freezing Saddles slap thingy reflective? Then that too.

Is that overkill? Sure. But the point is I take the effort to be visible to everyone. It’s just courtesy, especially out by me where the trail is not lit or not well lit. There’s no excuse to be out on a MUP at 6am in the pitch black with no reflective gear or lights.

[EasyRider]

I agree that it is our responsibility as cyclists not to hit other trail users, regardless of time of day or their attire. I also think Ninjas should be asked to have a bit of reflective material or to carry a flashlight. These are not mutually exclusive. As long as we’re taking 100% responsibility for other trail users safety, it’d be nice if they were a little easier to see.

[TwoWheelsDC]

If you can’t see an unlit/unreflector’d pedestrian in time to avoid hitting them, how are you going to avoid deer, rabbits, squirrels, potholes, downed trees, loose gravel, frost heaves, and whatever other hazard you can think of doesn’t have lights or reflectors? If your light’s cone of illumination is shorter than the length required to a)see obstacle b)react to obstacle, and c)avoid obstacle, you’re riding too fast. Want to ride faster? Get a better light. It’s not pedestrians’ responsibility to wear reflective gear just so you can ride faster (but again, what about all those other hazards?).

[Author]

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