Missed connection

[lordofthemark]

@DismalScientist 136313 wrote:

The amount of car parking that should be removed on a car-protected lane should be dependent on the speed of bicycle traffic. I get the impression that advocates think everyone should be riding like they are in Holland at 8 mph. I don’t ride at these speeds and do not want to be forced to choose between a slow bike lane and tbe narrow car lanes they create.

My sense is that on the one hand, cycling advocates want to draw more of the “8 to 80” reluctant crowd who are going to be riding 8MPH (and will be taking short trips where that is quite practical). And on the other hand, many such advocates themselves prefer to take the lane, rather than ride to the right, unless the lane is very very wide, which is not that common. So I do not know that there is really that big a constituency for say, 12 foot lanes vs 10.5 foot lanes. That might be a worthwhile discussion for its own thread – how wide does a lane have to be to prefer riding on the right to riding in the center?

It is also my impression that many roads with car protected bike lanes have multiple general travel lanes, so taking the center of the right hand lane may be more comfortable, and some have parallel streets without seg bike infra. In the case of Cameron Street, both of those would have held true. I know on Eads at least the latter is – I used the parallel streets when the PBL was filled with snow.

Note also, planners often want narrower lanes to calm traffic. In the case of King between Janneys and TCW, both the with and without buffered lanes options had the same lane widths, I am quite sure – the added real estate for the lanes came from removing one lane.

On the issue of door zone bike lanes, it’s a choice between being in the driver’s door zone or the passenger’s. At least on the driver’s side, there is the chance of evasive manuvers.

Since so many auto trips involve one person (about 90% of commute trips, and a significant portion of non-commute trips) you are less likely to have a door opening on the right than on the left. As for evasive action, you mean swerving into the general travel lane? I find that an uncomfortable maneuver when there is any significant amount of traffic in that lane, so in a door zone bike lane I tend to go slowly enough to be prepared to stop if necessary – which I can also do in a car protected bike lane.

And I don’t have a problem with wayfinding signs, just those that advocate illegal actions.

[scoot]

@lordofthemark 136342 wrote:

Since so many auto trips involve one person (about 90% of commute trips, and a significant portion of non-commute trips) you are less likely to have a door opening on the right than on the left. As for evasive action, you mean swerving into the general travel lane? I find that an uncomfortable maneuver when there is any significant amount of traffic in that lane, so in a door zone bike lane I tend to go slowly enough to be prepared to stop if necessary – which I can also do in a car protected bike lane.

I don’t believe it is possible to ride slow enough to prevent doorings in spite of riding in a DZ. I suppose traveling slower would reduce the risk a bit but certainly would not eliminate it. A far better bet is to avoid DZs entirely. A bike lane design that makes DZ avoidance difficult or even impossible is critically flawed.

[lordofthemark]

@scoot 136354 wrote:

I don’t believe it is possible to ride slow enough to prevent doorings in spite of riding in a DZ. I suppose traveling slower would reduce the risk a bit but certainly would not eliminate it. A far better bet is to avoid DZs entirely. A bike lane design that makes DZ avoidance difficult or even impossible is critically flawed.

What is at issue here is a conventional door zone bike lane (to the left of a lane of parked cars) vs a “protected” bike lane to the right of a lane of parked cars (often a choice localities must make, with input from “cycling advocates”). The latter seems much more attractive to newbie (and some not so newbie) cyclists, and provides considerable protection from sideswiping, etc. It clearly positions cyclists worse at intersections, as we have discussed above. Dismal seems to think it also worse for dooring than a conventional door zone bike lane.

[Steve O]

@DismalScientist 136338 wrote:

Well, who are the designers who advocate non-standard designs and seemingly don’t know what traffic signals and signs mean?

It would be very helpful to have someone with your knowledge and insight to join the Arlington Bicycle Advisory Committee. We meet the first Monday of each month at 2100 Clarendon Blvd.; 7pm. You seem to have a great interest and strong opinions regarding bicycle infrastructure, design, culture and the other aspects of how bikes intersect with our built environment and our culture and society. Hope to see you there on April 4.

In addition, there is an advocacy group in Arlington that meets on the third Monday of the month with the goal of influencing the political process in Arlington in ways that improve cycling. You seem to have good ideas about how advocacy should work and how it can be more effective. Your input to this committee could be very helpful. I hope you can make the next meeting on March 14 at the Clarendon Presbyterian Church.

[CaseyKane50]

@lordofthemark 136305 wrote:

BTW you might prefer Alexandria. … we have no bike traffic signals AFAIK, and we have relatively few wayfinding signs, although that last is starting to change.

Not correct, the first bike traffic light in Virginia was installed in Alexandria in 2010, just south of the Woodrow Wilson Bridge, at the Porto Vecchio Condominiums. Of course, since that one, there have been no other bike lights installed in Alexandria.

[ATTACH=CONFIG]11177[/ATTACH]

[dasgeh]

I dream of a Fairfax Drive with protected bike lanes that I can use when my kids are on their own bikes, and narrower traffic lanes, where cars stick to/below the speed limit, where I can ride when I’m late to meetings.

[ShawnoftheDread]

@Steve O 136358 wrote:

It would be very helpful to have someone with your knowledge and insight to join the Arlington Bicycle Advisory Committee. We meet the first Monday of each month at 2100 Clarendon Blvd.; 7pm. You seem to have a great interest and strong opinions regarding bicycle infrastructure, design, culture and the other aspects of how bikes intersect with our built environment and our culture and society. Hope to see you there on April 4.

In addition, there is an advocacy group in Arlington that meets on the third Monday of the month with the goal of influencing the political process in Arlington in ways that improve cycling. You seem to have good ideas about how advocacy should work and how it can be more effective. Your input to this committee could be very helpful. I hope you can make the next meeting on March 14 at the Clarendon Presbyterian Church.

It’s going to be difficult to give input if he has to leave as soon as you arrive.

[Anonymous]

They also stopped using this one. I mean, it’s still there, but it no longer functions as a red-green-yellow “normal” traffic signal. I liked it when it functioned that way, with a green bicycle that turned yellow at an appropriate amount of time for bike-speed notification that a red light was about to happen. It now has a red bicycle during the red-car-light/don’t-walk-light portion of the cycle, and a yellow bicycle at all other times, which makes it useless. It conveys no information other than what the car and pedestrian lights already convey. My guess would be it was changed for the same reasons others have been discussing– a non-trivial percentage of drivers coming out of the condo parking lot never look right before turning right on red onto Washington street. They are focused looking to their left waiting for a gap in northbound traffic on Washington street. These are people living directly adjacent to the MVT. I have seen drivers do this on busy weekend days in spring, when there is an uninterrupted flow of pedestrians and cyclists on the trail. I go through there enough that I expect it and will always slow down enough to be ready to stop when a car did that, but my guess is there are enough tourists and occasional trail users that others saw the green light and did what most people do at green lights which is proceed through it at normal speed assuming that the cross traffic (who has a red light) are not going to run you over. Except here, they are. Well, most of them won’t, but about 15% of them will.

@CaseyKane50 136365 wrote:

Not correct, the first bike traffic light in Virginia was installed in Alexandria in 2010, just south of the Woodrow Wilson Bridge, at the Porto Vecchio Condominiums. Of course, since that one, there have been no other bike lights installed in Alexandria.

[ATTACH=CONFIG]11177[/ATTACH]

[Terpfan]

@Amalitza 136379 wrote:

They also stopped using this one. I mean, it’s still there, but it no longer functions as a red-green-yellow “normal” traffic signal. I liked it when it functioned that way, with a green bicycle that turned yellow at an appropriate amount of time for bike-speed notification that a red light was about to happen. It now has a red bicycle during the red-car-light/don’t-walk-light portion of the cycle, and a yellow bicycle at all other times, which makes it useless. It conveys no information other than what the car and pedestrian lights already convey. My guess would be it was changed for the same reasons others have been discussing– a non-trivial percentage of drivers coming out of the condo parking lot never look right before turning right on red onto Washington street. They are focused looking to their left waiting for a gap in northbound traffic on Washington street. These are people living directly adjacent to the MVT. I have seen drivers do this on busy weekend days in spring, when there is an uninterrupted flow of pedestrians and cyclists on the trail. I go through there enough that I expect it and will always slow down enough to be ready to stop when a car did that, but my guess is there are enough tourists and occasional trail users that others saw the green light and did what most people do at green lights which is proceed through it at normal speed assuming that the cross traffic (who has a red light) are not going to run you over. Except here, they are. Well, most of them won’t, but about 15% of them will.

Ditto your comment here. I don’t think I’ve seen it ever green, or maybe once a couple years ago. Frankly, the most helpful thing at that intersection is the big mirror so I can see if any cars are approaching and they can see if I’m coming. Of course a lot more of that would be solved if that condo complex didn’t have the huge hedges and wall like the next entrance a block north by the bus stop that has clear sightlines.

[Anonymous]

It used to function as a normal traffic light. It’s been awhile; might have been before you moved to the neighborhood. It was nice. The yellow was timed really nicely to let, say, a 12mph bike know the red was coming.

[bentbike33]

@Amalitza 136379 wrote:

a non-trivial percentage of drivers coming out of the condo parking lot never look right before turning right on red onto Washington street. They are focused looking to their left waiting for a gap in northbound traffic on Washington street.

I have found a fairly effective tactic for dealing with drivers looking to do the right-on-red thing when I’m on a side-path on the “wrong” side of the street like this is to shout the word “RIGHT” at the top of my lungs.

[consularrider]

@bentbike33 136444 wrote:

I have found a fairly effective tactic for dealing with drivers looking to do the right-on-red thing when I’m on a side-path on the “wrong” side of the street like this is to shout the word “RIGHT” at the top of my lungs.

Or chuck a water bottle. 😡

[Terpfan]

@Amalitza 136423 wrote:

It used to function as a normal traffic light. It’s been awhile; might have been before you moved to the neighborhood. It was nice. The yellow was timed really nicely to let, say, a 12mph bike know the red was coming.

Interesting, yah definitely before I moved from north OT to Groveton/Beacon Hill. I didn’t ride the trail much south of OT much then except on weekends so I wouldn’t remember much even if I did. Would be nice if they reset it. Or hemmed the hedged. Or both. Alas, I tend to encounter more issues with people turning left from that other light and not paying attention to me or others crossing. Then again, that’s fairly rare and usually more at night time in the winter.

[Steve O]

@Terpfan 136419 wrote:

huge hedges and wall like the next entrance a block north by the bus stop that has clear sightlines.

The Key Bridge Marriott trimmed their bushes that were creating sight line issues at Ft. Myer Drive just by calling and explaining how it would improve safety at the intersection. Might be worth giving the condo owners a call.

Also, I looked at street view, and it appears that if they prohibited right on red that would help enormously. We got that to happen in Arlington at a similar kind of crossing (Wakefield St. at the I-66 on-ramp in Ballston)–drivers looking left, oblivious to people on the trail coming from the right. Once the drivers were trained, it improved safety and comfort at the intersection by an order of magnitude.

[CaseyKane50]

@Amalitza 136423 wrote:

It used to function as a normal traffic light. It’s been awhile; might have been before you moved to the neighborhood. It was nice. The yellow was timed really nicely to let, say, a 12mph bike know the red was coming.

I submitted a Request using Alexandria’s Call.Click.Connect asking that the light be reprogrammed to include a green cycle.

[Author]

Posts