Missed connection

[lordofthemark]

@dasgeh 131955 wrote:

So yes, painted bike lanes are worthless…

One more study showing that painted bike lanes increase safety as well as ridership, while sharrows only increase ridership, not safety, and do not increase ridership as much as painted bike lanes do.

http://usa.streetsblog.org/2016/01/14/study-sharrows-dont-make-streets-safer-for-cycling/#more-166902

[ShawnoftheDread]

@dplasters 132036 wrote:

Speeding aside, the usage of a bike lane that is empty for someone to pass a turning/merging vehicle seems a perfectly allowable usage under Arlington law and in my mind as well.

I just wish I could be sure the passing driver knows that the bike lane is not empty.

[dasgeh]

@lordofthemark 131958 wrote:

I find that most drivers will not drive in a bike lane. In fact while I can think of many occasions where someone stopped in a bike lane for a long time to unload, or made a turn into one incorrectly, I cannot recall seeing anyone driving straight in one, in DC, Arlington, or Alexandria.

I see drivers with one wheel in the bike lane on Quincy pretty much every time I ride it. It’s not most drivers, and not for the entire length, but where the car lane narrows, I’d guess 1 in 5 drivers won’t bother to change his/her line and if that means they end up with one wheel in the bike lane, so be it.

I get buzzed by cars much more often when I’m in the bike lane than not, especially when the car would have to wait for a couple seconds to give me the proper 3 feet (either because a car is in the oncoming lane, or because there’s a median — there’s one spot on Quincy just north of the ramp to the Custis where the entire width of the road narrows to make room for a median. So curb-to-median there’s only the minimum width for the parking lane, bike lane and travel lane. I don’t stay in the bike lane any more if there’s a parked car there and I see a car behind me, because the car coming up will buzz me every time.

[dasgeh]

@lordofthemark 132312 wrote:

One more study showing that painted bike lanes increase safety as well as ridership, while sharrows only increase ridership, not safety, and do not increase ridership as much as painted bike lanes do.

http://usa.streetsblog.org/2016/01/14/study-sharrows-dont-make-streets-safer-for-cycling/#more-166902

Thanks for the link. I read the article but not the study, but the description in the article does not say that the study reached the conclusion you did.

[lordofthemark]

@dasgeh 132381 wrote:

Thanks for the link. I read the article but not the study, but the description in the article does not say that the study reached the conclusion you did.

Pardon, it actually showed that ridership increased in roads with sharrows added less than in the control roads where nothing was added (!) and that the sharrows saw a lesser decrease in the rate of cyclist injuries, compared to the control, though that was not considered statistically significant. (I am afraid I had not been reading the language on the control carefully enough) .

Which suggests to me that at least for these particular lanes in Chicago, bike lanes were considerably more effective than sharrows at both decreasing injuries and increasing ridership.

Of course a study like that cannot address every quirk of local infra (I did not read the article, and do not know if Chicago avoided bike lanes on streets with parking, on streets with medians, if much ridership was at times of heavy congestion where bike lanes provide the opportunity to filter, etc) but I continue to believe that where a PBL or buffered lane is not possible, a striped bike lane, sometimes even a door zone striped bike lane, can be a real improvement over nothing or over a sharrows. Though of course I will defend the right of riders to take the lane in those instances, and will expect the faster and more confident riders to do so.

[lordofthemark]

@dasgeh 132378 wrote:

I see drivers with one wheel in the bike lane on Quincy pretty much every time I ride it. It’s not most drivers, and not for the entire length, but where the car lane narrows, I’d guess 1 in 5 drivers won’t bother to change his/her line and if that means they end up with one wheel in the bike lane, so be it.

I get buzzed by cars much more often when I’m in the bike lane than not, especially when the car would have to wait for a couple seconds to give me the proper 3 feet (either because a car is in the oncoming lane, or because there’s a median — there’s one spot on Quincy just north of the ramp to the Custis where the entire width of the road narrows to make room for a median. So curb-to-median there’s only the minimum width for the parking lane, bike lane and travel lane. I don’t stay in the bike lane any more if there’s a parked car there and I see a car behind me, because the car coming up will buzz me every time.

I was going to say that it must be the median then. I have not seen drivers entering the bike lane on North Hampton, which also has a median, but North Hampton is a less trafficed, calmer road (and I am usually on the section with the median only at night or on weekends, when it is particularly quiet)

I often see cars that fail to give a complete 3 feet, but as I said above, I see the same thing when I am taking the lane (IE even if they go over the yellow line to pass, they do not go far enough over to give 3 feet)

[scoot]

@lordofthemark 132385 wrote:

I often see cars that fail to give a complete 3 feet, but as I said above, I see the same thing when I am taking the lane (IE even if they go over the yellow line to pass, they do not go far enough over to give 3 feet)

This is not my experience at all. There is a huge increase in the percentage of cars that pass me too close when I’m not riding far enough left to fully claim a lane. All of my closest buzzes have been drivers trying to avoid crossing into the next lane, when I mistakenly give them just enough space to encourage them to try it.

What boggles my mind is that many drivers will do this even when the adjacent lane is completely empty of traffic. When I’m driving a car, I maintain situational awareness so that I know whether or not someone is next to me and who’s passing whom. Yet I see too many drivers who seem to take the attitude that they don’t need to be aware of anything in the next lane over. I am amazed at how long it takes some drivers to finally realize they can use the left lane to pass on multi-lane sharrow roads such as Walter Reed or George Mason. It’s like they’re waiting for me to slip up and move too far to the right, so that they could then squeeze through without having to check traffic in the other lane (the horror!).

[scoot]

@dasgeh 132378 wrote:

I get buzzed by cars much more often when I’m in the bike lane than not, especially when the car would have to wait for a couple seconds to give me the proper 3 feet (either because a car is in the oncoming lane, or because there’s a median — there’s one spot on Quincy just north of the ramp to the Custis where the entire width of the road narrows to make room for a median. So curb-to-median there’s only the minimum width for the parking lane, bike lane and travel lane. I don’t stay in the bike lane any more if there’s a parked car there and I see a car behind me, because the car coming up will buzz me every time.

Yes, this part of Quincy is awful. It renders the bike lane totally useless. If you ride far enough left to stay out of the door zone, drivers have to either stay behind you or buzz you. No surprise that many choose the latter if you give them the chance.

The reality of the present road configuration there means that it really should be marked as a sharrows and not a bike lane. The bike lane paint is telling cyclists to ride in the most dangerous portion of this street where they’re likely to get buzzed and/or doored. Not only that: it’s telling drivers that cyclists should be getting out of their way and into that danger spot. Better solutions would include removal of parking from at least one side of the street to create space for safe bike lanes, plus maybe removal of the median so drivers would have more space to pass. But if you’re not willing to take away any parking, at least mark the street to encourage riders to choose the safest line (which in this case is taking the lane).

[Steve O]

Me: Northbound on Walter Reed approaching S. 2nd St.; center of the lane, since there is no extra room here.
Me: hearing car approaching from rear I put out a hard left arm stop signal
You: Speeding up and passing in the opposite lane WHILE A SOUTHBOUND CAR IS COMING!!!
Southbound car: Full stop; blared horn
You: Now fourth in line at the red light at S. 2nd St.
Me: Caught up as light turned green and took the lane directly in front of you.
Me: Slow rolled to 2nd and turned right. Wished so hard the light had been 4 seconds shorter so I could have left you at the red.

[lordofthemark]

@scoot 132406 wrote:

This is not my experience at all. There is a huge increase in the percentage of cars that pass me too close when I’m not riding far enough left to fully claim a lane.

That is also my experience, when there is no striped bike lane. Not so much when there is. I checked for this again when I rode on Eye Street yesterday (which has no median) and it seemed like most cars were 2 to 3 feet from the left stripe of the bike lane (perhaps I was not judging distance accurately?) Perhaps the visual cues associated with an urban setting, the frequent traffic signals, etc moderate driver behavior? Because that is my experience.

It does sound like putting a striped door zone bike lane on a road with a median is usually a poor idea. In the case of North Hampton it was put in in response to community desire for traffic calming, and it seems to have worked out. But I wouldn’t generalize from that.

[scoot]

@lordofthemark 132416 wrote:

That is also my experience, when there is no striped bike lane. Not so much when there is. I checked for this again when I rode on Eye Street yesterday (which has no median) and it seemed like most cars were 2 to 3 feet from the left stripe of the bike lane (perhaps I was not judging distance accurately?) Perhaps the visual cues associated with an urban setting, the frequent traffic signals, etc moderate driver behavior? Because that is my experience.

So you were riding in the bike lane, but near the left edge, and drivers were on the other side of the white line, but less than 3 ft away? Also, I’m guessing your left-edge bike lane riding position is to avoid the door zone? If so, you weren’t actually taking the (motor vehicle) lane, so that is not the situation we were discussing.

Is there enough space between the double-yellow and the parked cars so that motor vehicle drivers can allow good clearance without crossing the double-yellow, even while you are riding far enough out to avoid the door zone? If not, it might be safer to treat it as if it were a sharrows, i.e. ride so far left (in the vehicle lane) as to leave drivers no doubt that they will have to cross the double-yellow if they wish to pass. Unfortunately, we have a lot of streets with bike lanes that fit these criteria, and the striping can send a dangerous message about where to ride. (such as N Quincy in Cherrydale).

It also sounds like your experience could be an example of the “obstacle is not in my lane, so I will drive as if I don’t notice it” phenomenon. It would be interesting if one could investigate whether passing distances would change at all (on the same road and with the same riding position) if the bike lane stripe were removed.

[lordofthemark]

@scoot 132504 wrote:

So you were riding in the bike lane, but near the left edge, and drivers were on the other side of the white line, but less than 3 ft away? Also, I’m guessing your left-edge bike lane riding position is to avoid the door zone? If so, you weren’t actually taking the (motor vehicle) lane, so that is not the situation we were discussing.

To clarify, I was comparing occasions when I have ridden in a bike lane (as I do on Eye Street) generally on the left side of the lane, though not on the edge, to occassions when I have taken the lane on streets without bike lanes. In the past Dasgeh has suggested that she is actually passed more safely by motor vehicles when she is taking the lane (and cars are crossing the yellow line to pass) than when she is in a bike lane. I fully respect that that is her experience, but it has not been mine, based on my rough estimates of passing distances.

Is there enough space between the double-yellow and the parked cars so that motor vehicle drivers can allow good clearance without crossing the double-yellow, even while you are riding far enough out to avoid the door zone? If not, it might be safer to treat it as if it were a sharrows, i.e. ride so far left (in the vehicle lane) as to leave drivers no doubt that they will have to cross the double-yellow if they wish to pass. Unfortunately, we have a lot of streets with bike lanes that fit these criteria, and the striping can send a dangerous message about where to ride. (such as N Quincy in Cherrydale).

There is enough room for them to pass.

It also sounds like your experience could be an example of the “obstacle is not in my lane, so I will drive as if I don’t notice it” phenomenon. It would be interesting if one could investigate whether passing distances would change at all (on the same road and with the same riding position) if the bike lane stripe were removed.

I cannot determine that empirically from my own experience, as I do not ride on the far right of a lane without a bike lane, unless it is unusually wide. Also because I was not riding back when Eye Street was unstriped, and it is my impression, confirmed in this conversation, that each street is different, not only because of street width, but visual cues, number of cyclists, culture of motorists, etc. I can refer to studies like the one quoted above, but without knowing the details on those attributes of the streets that were studied, that is not probative either.

Note well – I am not supporting a widespread push to get more striped door zone bike lanes. I think on our faster and more trafficked arterials we need buffered and/or protected lanes. In some such places that have striped bike lanes, conversion to better infra is a priority. On many quieter streets no treatment is fine, or a bike way with sharrows and traffic calming will do. And in some particular streets a striped bike lane is strongly negative. But I also do not agree that striped bike lanes, even door zone ones, never or rarely help (in terms of safety and ridership)

[scoot]

@lordofthemark 132577 wrote:

To clarify, I was comparing occasions when I have ridden in a bike lane (as I do on Eye Street) generally on the left side of the lane, though not on the edge, to occassions when I have taken the lane on streets without bike lanes. In the past Dasgeh has suggested that she is actually passed more safely by motor vehicles when she is taking the lane (and cars are crossing the yellow line to pass) than when she is in a bike lane. I fully respect that that is her experience, but it has not been mine, based on my rough estimates of passing distances.

Okay, that is what I thought you meant. My experience has been closer to dasgeh’s then. It seems to me that many drivers would rather pass a bicycle too closely than use the oncoming lanes, even if there is no oncoming traffic. They are probably not bicycle riders and are underestimating the danger of a close pass. If they think they can squeeze through, they will try it. (I suppose similar logic would suggest that, for streets with painted bike lanes, drivers would rather stay closer to the white line than the yellow, and that many will continue to do so even while passing a bicycle.

That’s why best practice, whenever a lane is too narrow to share, is to fully claim it by riding in the center. So that it will be very obvious to drivers that they need to use the other lane if they wish to pass. FWIW, while taking a lane, I often try to increase drivers’ passing clearance from me by moving about a foot to my right, after a driver has already decided to pass and has chosen his line in the adjacent lane, but slightly before he actually catches up to my back wheel. I try to do this in bike lanes too when possible, but in bike lanes such a maneuver is often either impossible or unsafe, due to narrow spaces, door zones, road debris, etc. So this could be affecting my results too…

[notinthe18]

Bro salmoning up 21st St NW last night between H and I around 6 PM… not on the sidewalk just trying to get to a bike rack … not carefully hugging the shoulder trying to get to the next cutout on the sidewalk… just straight up riding the wrong way in the middle of one-way traffic. Dude.

[CaseyKane50]

@Emm 131765 wrote:

you: cars driving down E. Monroe in Del Ray
Me: behind the cars, watching them avoid the newly-ish installed speed bumps by swerving into the bike lane, and almost hitting a cyclist (who was very visible, and luckily slammed his brakes to avoid the car entering his lane.)
you: didn’t even appear to realize you almost hit someone with your SUV…

I’ve noticed this alot lately. Some of the new speed bumps on E. Monroe in Del Ray are not as smooth on their incline or something, so even at really slow speeds (5-10 MPH) they knock and jolt your car around bad. Cars are now swerving into the newly installed bike lane to avoid the speed bumps. Anyone know the legality of this? I highly doubt Alexandria Police will enforce this even if it’s illegal, but I’m curious…

The City is addressing this particular problem on Monroe Street

Quote:

I can’t agree with you more. It’s a serious safety concern – and we’ve justifiably received a lot of complaints. We have directed our contractor to reduce the height of the speed cushions by 6 inches (to typical City standard), and to extend the cushions to the edge of the bike lane. They will make these modifications as soon as the weather warms up. In the meantime, we’ve asked APD to monitor the situation – although I can’t speak to how much they’ve patrolled this area as of late.

[Author]

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