Missed connection

[DanB]

@kwarkentien 119773 wrote:

Disagree. There’s culpability on both parties if neither called the pass (not the case in the present instance as GovernorSilver did call his pass but failed to look). It’s just like if you were driving and pulled out in the left lane while failing to signal and, more importantly, failing to look to see if there was traffic coming up behind you in that lane. You would in all likelihood be found at fault for an accident in that case. The rules on the bike trail are pretty analogous to what you would do on the road in a car. If you wouldn’t do it in the car, don’t do it on the bike.

Is passing on the trail more like passing on a four-lane road or a two-lane road? If it’s more like a two-lane road, then I’m not necessarily going to look behind me if I feel I’m going at a reasonable speed. Am I going with traffic at 10, 15 or 20 mph?

At some point the comparison with passing in a car falls apart, because the difference in speeds is much more pronounced on the trail. If I know I’m faster than most people on the trail (i.e. don’t get passed much–not saying that’s the case with me) wouldn’t I want to ride especially defensively, if only for self-preservation? Signalling passes at high speeds becomes problematic though, because you have to be so loud to give a 2-3 second warning. I just don’t see that happening. The best thing seems to be slowing down if you see more than one group up ahead. (I know, I know, braking is such a drag!)

In a perfect world I’d suggest that people who want to go over 20 mph should take the surface roads, but there just aren’t safe, direct routes for commuting out there other than the trails. Ah, well.

Enough rambling for today!

[TwoWheelsDC]

@americancyclo 119777 wrote:

I think of it more like a ski slope, where the uphill rider has more responsibility, since they have a better perspective. Everyone has a responsibility not to crash in to the back of someone in front of them. If I need to slow or stop, so be it. I can’t be held responsible for someone else skiing/driving/riding way too fast behind me and not able to control themselves.

I like that. It’s also a rule that’s generally on a big sign at the top and bottom of every lift…similar signs on the trails might be nice…

[dplasters]

There are two different passing issues happening.

On say, a four lane interstate, the most likely scenario is the last car in a line behind a slower moving vehicle in the right lane is going to be the one who passes first. As a hole opens up in the traffic existing in the left lane, the last car in line will have the first chance to merge left, thus passing first.

On a two lane road, the opposite is true. A bike path is obviously much more like a two lane road than a four lane interstate. What you have is people riding like its a four lane road on a two lane bike path.

You get this because we are spoiled drivers who live in an area where there are so few two lane roads left, let alone ones that even allow for passing, no one knows how its supposed to work anymore.

My personal opinion is that you should always check your left when moving left. Defensive driving, defensive riding. A scenario like that could very easily end up with someone clipping your bars or front wheel and you’re the one eating it. At that point, I’m not sure you really care who is in the right or not.

[americancyclo]

@TwoWheelsDC 119779 wrote:

I like that. It’s also a rule that’s generally on a big sign at the top and bottom of every lift…similar signs on the trails might be nice…

I think the NSAA Responsibility Code works pretty well for cycling and trail users:

The National Ski Areas Association established “Your Responsibility Code” in 1966 as a code of ethics for all skiers on the mountain. Today, the code reflects not only skier safety, but snowboarder and lift safety as well. Ultimately, safe skiing and snowboarding on the mountain is each person’s responsibility. Following the Responsibility Code helps all skiers and snowboarders have a safer mountain experience.

1. Always stay in control, and be able to stop or avoid other people or objects.
2. People ahead of you have the right of way. It is your responsibility to avoid them.
3. You must not stop where you obstruct a trail, or are not visible from above.
4. Whenever starting downhill or merging into a trail, look uphill and yield to others.
5. Always use devices to help prevent runaway equipment.
6. Observe all posted signs and warnings. Keep off closed trails and out of closed areas.
7. Prior to using any lift, you must have the knowledge and ability to load, ride and unload safely.

[jabberwocky]

I just think its ridiculous to truck along in the left lane expecting people people in front of you to yield when they probably don’t even know you’re there. The whole point of calling passes is so that people in front of you know you’re coming. Its especially true on a narrow, twisty trail like the Mt. Vernon.

I know that in addition to calling passes, I’m always watchful of people with obviously disparate speeds (a cyclist about to overtake a walker, for example) in front of me. I tend to assume that, even if I’ve called my pass, a cyclist about to overtake a walker will likely move left in front of me. But I’m usually riding the W&OD, which is wider and has good sitelines.

[mstone]

@DanB 119778 wrote:

Signalling passes at high speeds becomes problematic though, because you have to be so loud to give a 2-3 second warning. I just don’t see that happening.

Um, buy a bell. It works fine. That said, you probably shouldn’t be going 20+ on a MUP if there are pedestrians nearby (which they pretty much are by definition if you’re passing them).

[Steve O]

@americancyclo 119783 wrote:

5. Always use devices to help prevent runaway equipment.

I was doing so well until I got to this rule.

[DanB]

@mstone 119785 wrote:

Um, buy a bell. It works fine. That said, you probably shouldn’t be going 20+ on a MUP if there are pedestrians nearby (which they pretty much are by definition if you’re passing them).

Yeah, I use a bell, but at higher speeds you might be around 80 feet away in order to give 2-3 seconds notice. I just don’t know how well that will be heard if people are talking, if there’s ambient noise (traffic, wind, etc.), … That being said, for those instances where I feel I’m going faster than usual, I try to ding the bell two or three times so pedestrians might get an idea of my speed based on the change in sound. Could work …

[americancyclo]

@Steve O 119787 wrote:

I was doing so well until I got to this rule.

you know, leashes, for things that you love, like kids and puppies.

[DanB]

@Steve O 119787 wrote:

I was doing so well until I got to this rule.

My equipment is full of these devices (pedals, handlebars, axles, frame, rack, etc., etc.)!

[ShawnoftheDread]

@Steve O 119787 wrote:

I was doing so well until I got to this rule.

I thought that’s what my chamois was for.

[GovernorSilver]

@DanB 119788 wrote:

Yeah, I use a bell, but at higher speeds you might be around 80 feet away in order to give 2-3 seconds notice. I just don’t know how well that will be heard if people are talking, if there’s ambient noise (traffic, wind, etc.), … That being said, for those instances where I feel I’m going faster than usual, I try to ding the bell two or three times so pedestrians might get an idea of my speed based on the change in sound. Could work …

I average more like 11 mph. I’m still new to cycling and don’t have great stamina, so I try to save my legs for the few sprints I have to do on the street, and the climb home. I do use the descents north of the airport to boost speed (eg. past Gravelly Point), after which I pedal on my highest gear until the momentum drops off.

I usually ring the bell at a schoolbus length away (which my possibly faulty childhood memory associates with 100 ft), then ring again when I’m about 5 ft. away. I just replaced the bell that came stock with my bike because it fell apart after just two months of bike ownership. The new bell is a brass Incredibell. Usually one ring delivers such resonance and volume that pedestrians immediately start moving to their right.

[Tania]

@jabberwocky 119784 wrote:

I just think its ridiculous to truck along in the left lane expecting people people in front of you to yield when they probably don’t even know you’re there.

On almost every ride on the WOD/Custis, as I’m about to pass and am signaling with my left hand and looking over my left shoulder that I’m about to pass: WHAM! There’s a cyclist overlapping wheels (or just about to) with me. I’ve almost touched their bars a few times with my outstretched arm.

I now just assume there’s a ninja biker right behind me. And again, on pretty much every ride, someone from behind me passes ME as I’m passing (after having called the pass) someone else.

I bike to avoid aggressive drivers who are in a rush to get wherever they’re going. Sadly, many cyclists aren’t any different.

[jabberwocky]

@Tania 119795 wrote:

I bike to avoid aggressive drivers who are in a rush to get wherever they’re going. Sadly, many cyclists aren’t any different.

Its weird how my attitude towards MUPs have changed over the years. When I first started bike commuting in 2006, I loved that most of my commute was on the W&OD. Over time I got more comfortable on the road, and switched commutes to a 100% road commute with the new job in 2011. Now its sort of unpleasant putting in long miles on the W&OD; people are just so unpredictable, its this weird mix of totally oblivious newbies, wannabe racers, kids/dogs (these are basically the same thing to me) and normal riders/people.

I’ve gone from being nervous when I leave the W&OD for the road to wanting the W&OD section to end when I’m doing mixed rides.

[GovernorSilver]

@Tania 119795 wrote:

On almost every ride on the WOD/Custis, as I’m about to pass and am signaling with my left hand and looking over my left shoulder that I’m about to pass: WHAM! There’s a cyclist overlapping wheels (or just about to) with me. I’ve almost touched their bars a few times with my outstretched arm.

Reminds me of when I walked past a fellow pedestrian (on foot of course – pre-cycling days) at Gallery Place (corner of 7th and H). He suddenly gestured excitedly…

…and backfisted me in the face. It’s a wonder he didn’t knock me out with that classic kung fu move.

I still think about that when I pass pedestrians on my bike – so I ring my bell to reduce the odds of unpredictable moves.

[Author]

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