Missed connection

[dkel]

@dasgeh 101766 wrote:

Would you say the same thing about offering to help someone tie their shoe?

It is culturally inappropriate to offer to help someone tie their shoe. It is not culturally inappropriate to offer to help someone on stopped on the side of the road, apparently trying to effect repairs to their bike.

[dasgeh]

@dkel 101767 wrote:

It is culturally inappropriate to offer to help someone tie their shoe. It is not culturally inappropriate to offer to help someone on stopped on the side of the road, apparently trying to effect repairs to their bike.

My point is that when the repairs are minor (eg if you see someone adjusting their quick release seat height) and the person looks fine, it’s similarly patronizing.

But my original point was that the guy shouldn’t get offended that people didn’t offer help while he was dealing with minor repairs. Even if you think he shouldn’t get offended at the people that do offer help, you can’t really say the ones that don’t don’t have a “shred of decency”?

[Orestes Munn]

@dasgeh 101766 wrote:

Would you say the same thing about offering to help someone tie their shoe?

I am so going to have the urge to do that now. Daughter’s boyfriend is an ideal first subject.

[dkel]

@dasgeh 101768 wrote:

My point is that when the repairs are minor (eg if you see someone adjusting their quick release seat height) and the person looks fine, it’s similarly patronizing.

But my original point was that the guy shouldn’t get offended that people didn’t offer help while he was dealing with minor repairs. Even if you think he shouldn’t get offended at the people that do offer help, you can’t really say the ones that don’t don’t have a “shred of decency”?

Ah. I wasn’t trying to make a point about any of that. I also don’t disagree with you. My point: I think everyone should offer assistance wherever they think it is appropriate, and recipients of those offers should not judge those who are offering, even if it is annoying. As soon as anyone feels that they shouldn’t offer to help someone else for fear of being misconstrued, we’ve all lost something valuable.

[hozn]

I imagine that the sex of the cyclist could play a role here. I am guessing that a sociological study would find a difference in how (or how frequently etc.) help is offered depending on the sex of the one offering help and the one perceived to be in need of help. Sociologists do have an uncanny ability to confirm something everyone knew would be true

I have never taken offense by someone offering help when I am fixing a flat. But there has also never been a hint of patronization or condescension in those offers. I can imagine a different world for others (e.g. women cyclists).

Of course, I will still confirm that someone has what they need when it seems appropriate. But everyone should have a tube/pump/levers on them — and if not, the expectation that they will need to walk for a bit or make a phone call for a ride when they inevitably get a flat tire.

[dasgeh]

@dkel 101770 wrote:

Ah. I wasn’t trying to make a point about any of that. I also don’t disagree with you. My point: I think everyone should offer assistance wherever they think it is appropriate, and recipients of those offers should not judge those who are offering, even if it is annoying. As soon as anyone feels that they shouldn’t offer to help someone else for fear of being misconstrued, we’ve all lost something valuable.

As long as offers of assistance are out of genuine generosity, fine, but too often, offers of assistance (in the world generally, not on the trail as much, though sometimes there too) are of the “you clearly can’t handle this on your own, Honey. Let me help you out.” variety. I think it’s appropriate to judge that.

[dkel]

@dasgeh 101773 wrote:

As long as offers of assistance are out of genuine generosity, fine, but too often, offers of assistance (in the world generally, not on the trail as much, though sometimes there too) are of the “you clearly can’t handle this on your own, Honey. Let me help you out.” variety. I think it’s appropriate to judge that.

I agree. This also makes me nervous, though, because someone out there will manage to make a genuine offer and come across as condescending. Times I’ve been the guy on the side of the road have always gotten my level of aggravation up just for the sake of being stuck on the side of the road; I have had to remind myself that my mood is totally apart from other people and their actions. It’s often more difficult to be charitable in receiving than in giving.

[KLizotte]

@dasgeh 101773 wrote:

As long as offers of assistance are out of genuine generosity, fine, but too often, offers of assistance (in the world generally, not on the trail as much, though sometimes there too) are of the “you clearly can’t handle this on your own, Honey. Let me help you out.” variety. I think it’s appropriate to judge that.

I guess I’m different because if a guy (or gal) offers to fix my flat I will gladly take them up on it since I am very, very slow at it. Or any repair for that matter. I’m always thankful and grateful when people slow down and offer assistance even when it is not needed; as a singleton without someone to call at home when a breakdown occurs, such kindness is much appreciated! I’ll take any chivalry I can get!!!

[oldbikechick]

I carry no tools and have no skills. I once had to ask someone to show me how to shift the borrowed bike I was riding. I feel like it would be silly to ask if they need help and then be unable to provide any. Of course if I thought I had anything to contribute (someone looked injured, lost, etc), I would ask, but otherwise, no. Given my lack of tools and skills, I of course would not at all be offended if someone offered to help me. But I would not hold it against people if they didn’t.

[Arlingtonrider]

I have little in the way of tools or skills, but I almost always give a shout out and slow down if it looks like someone might need some help, even if it’s just an extra hand to hold the bike up. Usually they say they’re ok. (Sometimes when I have stopped, I’ve learned about things that I’ve later looked up and learned more about.) I also always carry grease-removing handwipes. Those have often been much appreciated, even by people who know what they’re doing.

Oh, and I’m never ever offended by offers of assistance, just so ya’ll know. .

[Sunyata]

Maybe it is because I really learned how to ride a bike in the mountains and just recently (in 2011) started riding on roads/MUP’s, etc., but I was taught that any time you see someone alone on the side of the trail/road with what seems like a problem, you should ask “All good?” or “Is everything okay?”. To me, that is proper etiquette and the polite thing to do. If the rider says everything is okay, then I ride on. If the rider answers with something else, I will slow down and offer assistance (whatever assistance I can provide, even if it is just an extra hand to hold up the bike or wheel).

Also, I have never once felt that someone offering assistance to me has been condescending or insinuating that I am unable to handle something myself. Maybe it is because I am from a rural area that I think the best of people or an gullible, but I have never once felt that someone was not offering genuine assistance. (Or it could be that I put off a “bad ass mountain biker” vibe that people automatically think I know what I am doing… Even though I am absolutely not a bad ass mountain biker… Maybe a bad ass mountain bike crasher?)

But reading everyone’s experiences, maybe the best thing to do is not offer help, but instead ask if everything is good? This way, you are showing concern and letting them know that if they need help, all they have to do is speak up. But without the “OMG, you are such a wuss, no way you could fix that flat tire” vibe that some of you are getting…

[Orestes Munn]

I am proficient at fixing flats, but my big fear is flatting in the cold and being unable to work with numb hands, which has happened to me. Therefore, I rely on people asking if I need anything and will readily ask if I can warm my hands in their armpits.

[mstone]

On a fairly busy trail I think it’s reasonable to assume that if someone is working on their bike they are ok. If they need help, it would be pretty easy for them to wave and ask. (And if they’re bleeding/unconscious/staring at pieces of their bike, then proactively offering help makes more sense.) Opinions can differ on that, but to get upset that people aren’t living up to your standards on a matter in which reasonable people can differ is kinda nuts. Especially if, as in the case of the post that started this thread, no help actually seems to have been needed–suggesting that the people not offering help were the ones who assessed the situation more correctly.

[Crickey7]

@Drewdane 101714 wrote:

I hope I never find myself in a situation where I actually need help for real if that’s what I can expect.

I guess I am uncomfortable with the notion that it’s okay to shame those who didn’t stop. As others have said, they may have their own reasons not to, like pressing schedules, lack of tools or skills, or plain awkwardness. And while it’s more important to stop for a rider who is in distress or looking flummoxed, or in a remote location or late at night, none of those came into play here. Nothing wrong with stopping, to be sure. But I’m going to save my outrage for situations other than a rider who didn’t need help not being offered any for a couple of minutes.

[jabberwocky]

If I see someone obviously dealing with a mechanical issue, I’ll slow down and ask if they have everything they need. I’ve helped several people (mostly in my old commuting-on-the-W&OD days) with minor adjustments or flat tires. If they look like they have everything in hand I generally leave them to it though. I’ve found that most people offer to help when I’ve stopped to deal with something, which I appreciated even when I had it under control. I don’t really mind when people don’t offer though.

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