Missed connection

[TwoWheelsDC]

@Hancockbs 63053 wrote:

As such, I expect the same law applies to bicycles.

Yeah, but it doesn’t.

http://www.waba.org/resources/laws.php

Passing Cars

DC: Allowed to pass on left or right, in the same lane or changing lanes, or pass off road.

MD: Exercise due care when passing.

VA: Same as DC.

[lordofthemark]

@DismalScientist 63049 wrote:

I don’t think the right to filter stopped traffic is specific to bikes. Cars can filter on the right to make a right turn if there is room. Generally lanes are not sufficiently wide for cars to filter each other.:rolleyes:

The special right of bicyclists to ride on the sidewalk makes them no longer road users when doing so. As such it is not a special road rule.

The “rule” that bicyclists ride on the right is really a rule that slower traffic stays to the right, whether motorized or not. Unfortunately IMO, this rule does not seem to be enforced against motorists any more. If you are riding at the prevailing speed of traffic, you have no obligation to stay to the right (as far as practicable).

Here’s the Va code

http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504.exe?000+cod+46.2-905

whatever you think it “really” is, the code makes specific refererence to bicycles.

The distinction about sidewalk rules not being “road rules” seems arbitrary to me. The fact is bikes have different rights on public infrastructure than motor vehicles do.

and that still leaves bike lanes, which are on roads and allow bikes, but not motor vehicles.

[lordofthemark]

@Hancockbs 63046 wrote:

Taking it just a bit further, if you filter past cars that recently passed you in a safe manner, don’t you think they have a legitimate beef if they have to wait to pass you safely again?

I personally would never filter in such a situation. There are places where filtering can enable me to get quickly to a bike lane, or to where I was already planning on going onto a sidewalk. Both are situations not applicable to motorcycles.

[DismalScientist]

@lordofthemark 63056 wrote:

and that still leaves bike lanes, which are on roads and allow bikes, but not motor vehicles.

Drivers can, and should, use the bike lanes when making a right turn.

[mstone]

@Hancockbs 63050 wrote:

Wow! I can only say that as a cyclist, I abhor your attitude. As a car driver, it infuriates me. You want all of the “rights” of the road, but none of the responsibilies. This is precisely why you, and yes, I mean you, mstone, will not be taken seriously as an advocate and why I don’t want you representing me as a cyclist.

Luckily, I don’t represent you.

I wonder, do people who switch back and forth between lanes to get ahead in traffic and end up behind also have a “right” to be pissed off? I’d suggest that you get over being “infuriated” over whether you need to pass someone and focus on safety instead of keeping score.

[bikeeveryday]

@jhr 63052 wrote:

As an added incentive: if you call your pass when there’s a bike rapidly approaching from the opposite direction, I will be glad to yell “bike up” at the top of my lungs at no charge.

Come on jhr, let’s treat each other as we would want to be treated. Yelling “bike up” at the top of your lungs will not stop the cycle of peds/bikers/motorists demonizing each other. So, please, don’t do that.

[Hancockbs]

@TwoWheelsDC 63055 wrote:

Yeah, but it doesn’t.

http://www.waba.org/resources/laws.php

Thanks for the reference. I read that (and the specific VA legal reference) as applying to moving vehicles rather than those that are stopped at a traffic control device, but I understand how others might read it differently. I will continue to retain my place in line and try my best to get along with the other road users rather than give them a potential reason to resent my presence.

[mstone]

@DismalScientist 63036 wrote:

The ACPD don’t seem to have any problems sitting at the ramps on 66 generating revenue by issuing HOV violations. I’m sure the revenue per minute there exceed that of dissuading bad behavior in school zones.

I thought we were talking about about speeding tickets, now we’re talking about HOV. Bottom line is that the “revenue” argument sounds good, but the PD doesn’t see the money and the officers actually writing the tickets don’t care about the money. They’re doing HOV enforcement because they were directed to do so, and there aren’t many HOV side streets. (FWIW, the ones here are state police and not ACPD, though I suppose it might be that there are ACPD somewhere.) They do care to some extent about the number of citations (it’s a measurable metric) and, as I said, most try to get some numbers and be done with that as quickly as possible because writing tickets sucks. If the politicians showed a sustained interest in metrics like “tickets in school zones” and “tickets in crosswalks”, the number of such citations would probably go up.

[lordofthemark]

@DismalScientist 63058 wrote:

Drivers can, and should, use the bike lanes when making a right turn.

Yes, where they are striped with a broken line indicating the lawfulness of doing so. They also, IIUC, have the right to cross them to park.

IE there are specific limits on when they can and cannot enter them. While bicyclists can always enter them, and can ride in them for distances.

IE they are an instance (and an important one) of bikes and motor vehicles being treated differently in the law. As are (most) limited access highways.

[Hancockbs]

@mstone 63059 wrote:

Luckily, I don’t represent you.

I wonder, do people who switch back and forth between lanes to get ahead in traffic and end up behind also have a “right” to be pissed off? I’d suggest that you get over being “infuriated” over whether you need to pass someone and focus on safety instead of keeping score.

Nope, I switch lanes, I take my chances. I take responsibility for my actions. I wonder, do you think you have the right to go to the head of the line at the movie, restaurant, amusement park ride, etc? Sure seems like you do.

[mstone]

@Hancockbs 63062 wrote:

I will continue to retain my place in line and try my best to get along with the other road users rather than give them a potential reason to resent my presence.

LOL, if you’re 75 or 100 feet back in a line of cars at a suburban intersection on a 35 or 45MPH road, I GUARANTEE the ones stuck behind you will resent you when your insistence that you’ll stay in the lane makes them miss their light. (Or they will kill you trying to pass in lane to make the light and still resent you because, bike.) If your criteria for success is “avoiding potential reasons for jackhole motorists to resent me”, you’ll lose every time.

I am absolutely certain that I piss people off when I filter on Jermantown Road approaching 50 westbound (some of them passed me as much as a half mile earlier), but I am immensely safer getting to the head of the line and being able to cross into the empty right lane (there’s a screwy arrangement there where the right lane is a turn lane, and the middle lane continues to the left lane on the far side) than either hanging out in the center lane with a target on my back or being mixed up in the right turn lane. Frankly, I don’t give a fig about pissing them off, because I enjoy not being dead more than I’m concerned about pissing off people that are already pissed off. (Side note: crossing as a pedestrian is a bad option there also, because the right turning cars tend not to stop on red, let alone once they get the green; the “no right turn on red when pedestrians are present” is universally ignored, but that’s ok because driver malfeasance is socially acceptable. Also the far end of the crosswalk has a telephone pole and a wall narrowing the sidewalk. And the crosswalk gets a minimal cycle.)

[mstone]

@Hancockbs 63065 wrote:

I wonder, do you think you have the right to go to the head of the line at the movie, restaurant, amusement park ride, etc? Sure seems like you do.

Your analogy sucks, because in those cases I’m actually depriving them of something (seating choice, access to the ride, potentially the ability to attend at all). What, exactly are they losing if they have to pass me again? (Other than their temper.) I can tell you they didn’t slow down the first time and they probably won’t slow down the second. Should I have been equally angry at them when they passed me, because passing is a sign of moral contempt? Or is passing people just something we do on roads and not something to flip out over? Why don’t you take a deep breath, think really hard about being “infuriated” and decide whether being angry about other people is really a good basis for a rational society.

[Mikey]

Wouldn’t a better analogy be, passing up the line for the Women’s room to use the Men’s room?

[DismalScientist]

I think the answer to whether to filter depends on road conditions to the extent bicycles can be easily passed once traffic is moving again. I wouldn’t filter on a road with substandard lanes where passing is difficult. On wide roads where a car can safely pass without changing lanes, filtering to the front won’t delay anyone.

[ShawnoftheDread]

@Mikey 63070 wrote:

Wouldn’t a better analogy be, passing up the line for the Women’s room to use the Men’s room?

I always do this. I’m a bad person. Or a non-felon, depends on your outlook.

[Author]

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