Missed connection

[lordofthemark]

@baiskeli 62924 wrote:

No, I think you read things into it that weren’t there.

The comment was simply that cyclists shouldn’t run red lights. You have to work hard to find a way to quibble with that simple statement.

I will say that this http://bikearlingtonforum.com/showthread.php?5593-How-do-you-know-when-a-light-is-set-for-sensors was a definite learning experience for me. While I hope to review all relevant laws, I think there are a number of situations (traffic light red but ped light set to “walk”, light controlled by sensor, light where there is little cross traffic and biking on red after stopping provides a way to avoid turning cars while being more visibile to cars going in the same direction) that I want to think more about.

[dasgeh]

@Hancockbs 62946 wrote:

How about we simply ask that they uniformly enforce the law as written and make no subjective judgements and have no attitudes or biases about when and who to enforce it on? If we don’t like the laws, either get them changed or accept the consequences of disobeying.

Actually, no. I think law enforcement should put priority on enforcing the laws that keep OTHERS safe.

[lordofthemark]

@Hancockbs 62946 wrote:

How about we simply ask that they uniformly enforce the law as written and make no subjective judgements and have no attitudes or biases about when and who to enforce it on? If we don’t like the laws, either get them changed or accept the consequences of disobeying.

So I can get them to ticket the woman in the SUV who was sitting in the crosswalk on LRT the other day, and when I shrugged at her after walking my bike past, she just shrugged back (though she had room to back up). I took a pic with my cellphone – I didn’t actually manage to get the license legibly, but I hope I got her thinking.

[Hancockbs]

@dasgeh 62955 wrote:

Actually, no. I think law enforcement should put priority on enforcing the laws that keep OTHERS safe.

But that becomes very subjective. I could easily argue that the vast majority of laws could be enforced to keep others safe. A bike running a red light could very easily hit a pedestrian for instance. Even if a pedestrian is not present at the specific time and location, the next time it occurs, there could be. I would greatly prefer to remove as much subjectivity as possible. Objective enforcement is much more likely to be “fair” and equitable and much less likely to be influenced by individual bias and prejudice.

[KLizotte]

@Hancockbs 62966 wrote:

But that becomes very subjective. I could easily argue that the vast majority of laws could be enforced to keep others safe. A bike running a red light could very easily hit a pedestrian for instance. Even if a pedestrian is not present at the specific time and location, the next time it occurs, there could be. I would greatly prefer to remove as much subjectivity as possible. Objective enforcement is much more likely to be “fair” and equitable and much less likely to be influenced by individual bias and prejudice.

I agree. I also cringe when I see peds stopping in the crosswalk because they don’t know whether I’m going to stop for them (I do). You can see the fear and uncertainty on their faces which means a lot of cyclists blow thru crosswalks/red lights. That’s bad.

[americancyclo]

I passed by a high school this morning and there were two giant electronic signs, a police officer and two crossing guards to remind drivers that pedestrians have right of way in the crosswalk and to NOT run over children.

[consularrider]

@americancyclo 62970 wrote:

I passed by a high school this morning and there were two giant electronic signs, a police officer and two crossing guards to remind drivers that pedestrians have right of way in the crosswalk and to NOT run over children.

A sad commentary on the current state of affairs that this needs such reinforcement every year.

[mstone]

@KLizotte 62969 wrote:

I agree. I also cringe when I see peds stopping in the crosswalk because they don’t know whether I’m going to stop for them (I do). You can see the fear and uncertainty on their faces which means a lot of cyclists blow thru crosswalks/red lights. That’s bad.

That’s a different story. I would love to see more crosswalk enforcement, and anyone, motorist or cyclist, who can’t respect a crosswalk should be significantly penalized. The problem with the “blow lights” narrative is that it’s pretty meaningless. There is a qualitative difference between “proceeded at a constant high rate of speed with no obvious response to conditions”, “stopped and proceeded”, “slowed and looked and proceeded through empty intersection”, “stopped and waited”, “stopped proceeded after intersection emptied”, etc. Conversely, one could wait until the light turns green and run a pedestrian out of an intersection. The narrative we should be emphasizing is deferring to more vulnerable road users, not mindless adherence to traffic signals engineered for cars. Why emphasize that? Because sometimes not being a jackhole means not pushing all the way to the edge of what you can legally get away with or simplistically applying complex rules–focus on the goal, not the means.

[mstone]

@consularrider 62972 wrote:

A sad commentary on the current state of affairs that this needs such reinforcement every year.

Worse is the implication that running down children during the summer seems acceptable.

[rcannon100]

@consularrider 62972 wrote:

A sad commentary on the current state of affairs that this needs such reinforcement every year.

As The Kid took off on his bike to school for day one, I had to give him the pep talk. This time of year is always the worst for drivers… and where is the worst place for bad driving?? Right in front of our schools. The traffic violations parents engage in, putting children at risk, for a few seconds of convenience, is atrocious. In 12 years, I have seen a police officer out in front of a school, “educating drivers” once.

[IMG]http://www.bocaratontribune.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/School-is-open-picture.bmp[/IMG]

[Dickie]

@mstone 62973 wrote:

The problem with the “blow lights” narrative is that it’s pretty meaningless.

The “meaningless” aspect is only for those that do not see the consequences of their actions, but for those law abiding cyclists like myself who are stopped with the rest of traffic at a light I see the head shakes and disdain growing in your wake. I just love how some cyclists want more respect from drivers but refuse to earn it.

[dasgeh]

@Hancockbs 62966 wrote:

But that becomes very subjective. I could easily argue that the vast majority of laws could be enforced to keep others safe. A bike running a red light could very easily hit a pedestrian for instance. Even if a pedestrian is not present at the specific time and location, the next time it occurs, there could be. I would greatly prefer to remove as much subjectivity as possible. Objective enforcement is much more likely to be “fair” and equitable and much less likely to be influenced by individual bias and prejudice.

It doesn’t have to be subjective. There is plenty of data already gathered and plenty more to be gathered.

In places where cyclists do illegal things that threaten others safety, I’m all for enforcement. However, the top priority for enforcement should be for behavior that really threatens others’ lives.

This is why I think speeding in areas with little kids, and speeding more than 35 mph should be enforced more than speeding 30mph in a 25mph.

Look at facts, target areas where one group of actors is making another group of people unsafe. [Hint: it’s not cyclists running the stop sign at Haines Point]

[dasgeh]

@rcannon100 62977 wrote:

As The Kid took off on his bike to school for day one, I had to give him the pep talk. This time of year is always the worst for drivers… and where is the worst place for bad driving?? Right in front of our schools. The traffic violations parents engage in, putting children at risk, for a few seconds of convenience, is atrocious. In 12 years, I have seen a police officer out in front of a school, “educating drivers” once.

Hopefully, we’ll see more now and in the future, at least in Arlington. This week I’ve learned that any road that leads to a school around bell time is hazardous. Unfortunately, I have to go by one of two schools, or on a road that leads to a school, to get to work [OK, I just figured out how I can avoid it… TOMORROW]. Drivers are SUPER impatient these days. *Sigh.*

@americancyclo 62970 wrote:

I passed by a high school this morning and there were two giant electronic signs, a police officer and two crossing guards to remind drivers that pedestrians have right of way in the crosswalk and to NOT run over children.

Was this W&L? It would be helpful to know for tonight’s MMTSSSC meeting.

[rcannon100]

W&L has a sign on Quincy. W&L is TERRIBLE for traffic violations on Stafford.

My impossible recommendation: The street for the front door of schools should be one way during school drop-off and pick-up times. Stafford should be one way. My kids went to Taylor. That was insane. Stuart should be one way.

And and (okay, I will say this and shut up as I know it is pointless) AND 5th graders SHOULD NOT be crossing guards. They do not have the maturity to make life and death decisions. I have seen distracted 5th grader crossing guards who are too busy being social (which is what they should be doing they are kids) put other kids directly in harms way (harms way being parents driving to school in a the-rules-dont-apply-to-me way).

Are we lucky nothing has happened yet? Nope! At Kenmore even teachers have gotten hit by cars on Carlin Springs. It seem like every year we were at Kenmore someone got hit by a car on Carlin Springs bc APS will not enforce good traffic and pedestrian behavior.

[lordofthemark]

@dasgeh 62981 wrote:

This is why I think speeding in areas with little kids, and speeding more than 35 mph should be enforced more than speeding 30mph in a 25mph.

I wish that when I drove 30MPH in a 25MPH zone, people wouldn’t tailgate me or flash their headlights because I go too slowly.

The reality is we are very very very far from universal enforcement of traffic laws. The notion of eliminating the 10MPH speed “buffer” over the limit is a dream (at least in Fairfax.) Police simply don’t have the resources. And speed cameras are illegal in Virginia (shows how much poliitcal will there is to enforce traffic laws). Discussions of enforcing everything need to take place in this context or they are unrealistic, and thus poor guides to policy.

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