Maine Avenue is Combat

[lordofthemark]

@ursus 181692 wrote:

This isn’t the correct thread to post this, but I figured this post would reach the appropriate people here. It can, of course, be posted elsewhere also.

A little less than a year ago, we wanted to have a morning coffee gathering at the District Hardware and Bike store at the current southern end of the DC Wharf. It turned out that it wasn’t really open yet.

Now that it has been in business for sometime, is anyone interested in trying to do this again? The selling window opens at 7 AM and the store itself at 8 AM. If we decide to meet before 8 AM, the tables they set up outside may or may not be available yet, but in any case there are some tables in the small park south of the store.

I will be away this Friday, but I am interested.

[ursus]

@lordofthemark 181698 wrote:

I will be away this Friday, but I am interested.

Hopefully there are others who are also interested. As to when, I should probably leave it to others because I am retired. Of course the date and time which is picked will probably conflict with something that I am doing.

[JanaeBixby]

Anyone notice the new “slow” and “stop” lettering accompanied by a white solid line (like that on the road where a car gets to a 4-way intersection) AT EVERY INTERSECTION along the bike route infront of the wharf?

Am I the only one who thinks that including these lettered-signals on the bike path puts the onus on the cyclist to prevent accidents where cars pull into and outof the wharf rather than requiring cars to yield when cyclists/pedestrians have the walk signal or where there is no walk signal/light? If a car hits you they can claim you had a stop, and they did not. Oh, and for each of those intersections where a car is coming out between building exiting the wharf, there is no solid large white line telling them where they need to stop before proceeding to cross the pedestrian and bike paths.

Seems a little unfair to the bikers. Makes me want to use Maine Ave. just to avoid having to stop at each intersection. Who am I kidding….. I’M NOT STOPPING (unless I have the red light)!

Seems like they are making it less and less conventient to use the designated bike path by the wharf each week. They also need to repaint the “cyclist” or “bike” icon on the ground to signal to pedestrians the intent of the path. That seems much more noticble than the small signs posted on poles. There used to be pictures of bikes on the ground if I remember correctly but they have since washed away.

Who do we contact about these things??!??!!!??

[Zack]

@JanaeBixby 181818 wrote:

Anyone notice the new “slow” and “stop” lettering accompanied by a white solid line (like that on the road where a car gets to a 4-way intersection) AT EVERY INTERSECTION along the bike route infront of the wharf?

Am I the only one who thinks that including these lettered-signals on the bike path puts the onus on the cyclist to prevent accidents where cars pull into and outof the wharf rather than requiring cars to yield when cyclists/pedestrians have the walk signal or where there is no walk signal/light? If a car hits you they can claim you had a stop, and they did not. Oh, and for each of those intersections where a car is coming out between building exiting the wharf, there is no solid large white line telling them where they need to stop before proceeding to cross the pedestrian and bike paths.

Seems a little unfair to the bikers. Makes me want to use Maine Ave. just to avoid having to stop at each intersection. Who am I kidding….. I’M NOT STOPPING (unless I have the red light)!

Seems like they are making it less and less conventient to use the designated bike path by the wharf each week. They also need to repaint the “cyclist” or “bike” icon on the ground to signal to pedestrians the intent of the path. That seems much more noticble than the small signs posted on poles. There used to be pictures of bikes on the ground if I remember correctly but they have since washed away.

Who do we contact about these things??!??!!!??

The public outreach person for the Wharf is Elinor Bacon, ebacon@erbacondevelopment.com. Have they fixed the pothole caused by illegal construction crew at the Wharf yet?

I saw that lettering too, I have never seen any guidance suggesting this. In fact, newer guidance does not suggest trail users “stop” as a precaution, those trail stop signs were meant as a warning.

I don’t know why they do not have marked crosswalks and white stop bars although that would not stop most people anyways. They have dedicated police officers for the Wharf, I wish they would do some block the box enforcement.

[Zack]

Looking at the NACTO guidance, it does not appear that the Wharf cycletrack is compliant. The conflict zones should be green and while parking may be officially set back 30′ from the driveway crossings, illegal parking often occurs, so some kind of barrier is necessary.
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[JanaeBixby]

@Zack 181820 wrote:

The public outreach person for the Wharf is Elinor Bacon, ebacon@erbacondevelopment.com. Have they fixed the pothole caused by illegal construction crew at the Wharf yet?

I saw that lettering too, I have never seen any guidance suggesting this. In fact, newer guidance does not suggest trail users “stop” as a precaution, those trail stop signs were meant as a warning.

I don’t know why they do not have marked crosswalks and white stop bars although that would not stop most people anyways. They have dedicated police officers for the Wharf, I wish they would do some block the box enforcement.

Ugh no- they threw some pebbles into the pothole but a pothole with pebbles is still a pothole.

[Mariner]

@JanaeBixby 181818 wrote:

Anyone notice the new “slow” and “stop” lettering accompanied by a white solid line (like that on the road where a car gets to a 4-way intersection) AT EVERY INTERSECTION along the bike route infront of the wharf?

Am I the only one who thinks that including these lettered-signals on the bike path puts the onus on the cyclist to prevent accidents where cars pull into and outof the wharf rather than requiring cars to yield when cyclists/pedestrians have the walk signal or where there is no walk signal/light? If a car hits you they can claim you had a stop, and they did not. Oh, and for each of those intersections where a car is coming out between building exiting the wharf, there is no solid large white line telling them where they need to stop before proceeding to cross the pedestrian and bike paths.

What would concern me about such features is that in the event of an accident, the cyclist can be assessed with some degree of contributory negligence, reducing any potential award from a damage suit, and perhaps making it impossible to collect at all. If it says “STOP” on the cycletrack, you can bet a driver’s insurer or lawyer is going to say a collision was the cyclist’s fault, despite it not being at all in compliance with federal standards.

I have not been down on Maine Ave on two wheels since last fall (2017), and then again this past summer, and it was a horrible mess both times. I really feel for anyone who cycle commutes through there.

[huskerdont]

@Mariner 182146 wrote:

What would concern me about such features is that in the event of an accident, the cyclist can be assessed with some degree of contributory negligence, reducing any potential award from a damage suit, and perhaps making it impossible to collect at all. If it says “STOP” on the cycletrack, you can bet a driver’s insurer or lawyer is going to say a collision was the cyclist’s fault, despite it not being at all in compliance with federal standards.

I’m no lawyer so don’t ride according to anything I state, but it’s my understanding that DC is no longer operating under contributory negligence. Comparative negligence now, with those considered to be <50% able to recover.

http://www.rsrm.com/dc-moves-comparative-negligence-pedestrians-and-bikers

[lordofthemark]

Who actually controls the paint on the PBLs? WharfDC? SWBID? DDOT?

[Mariner]

@huskerdont 182149 wrote:

I’m no lawyer so don’t ride according to anything I state, but it’s my understanding that DC is no longer operating under contributory negligence. Comparative negligence now, with those considered to be <50% able to recover.

http://www.rsrm.com/dc-moves-comparative-negligence-pedestrians-and-bikers

Ya know, that may very well be true for the District. Negligence was one of those things I learned about years ago and I tend to overdo the protective reaction to it. I’d still worry about a STOP directive, compliant or not, and trying to overcome that in recovery.

[Brendan von Buckingham]

They’re in public space, so DDOT regs, but a private group like the BID might augment signage in coordination with DDOT.

[Judd]

@Mariner 182152 wrote:

Ya know, that may very well be true for the District. Negligence was one of those things I learned about years ago and I tend to overdo the protective reaction to it. I’d still worry about a STOP directive, compliant or not, and trying to overcome that in recovery.

DC did end contributory negligence (I think it was two years ago). But a lawyer’s gonna argue anything that he or she can and it just takes convincing 12 people that think a cyclist is 51% at fault for running a stop sign to award zero damages regardless of whether the stop sign is legally enforceable.

I was on a civil jury once involving an auto crash where the fault was about 50/50 and everyone immediately thought it was 50/50 but we had to talk for an hour and a half because one of the jurors was struggling with a 50/50 fault assignment preventing awarding any damages.

[huskerdont]

Yeah, to be clear, in no way was I advocating just ignoring the signs while thinking you’ll be fine in court. We’ve all seen and heard of citations being written to cyclists even when they clearly weren’t at fault. Best to avoid any danger you can, since there is so much you can’t.

My experience on a civil accident trial was similar to Judd’s; the judge gave clear instructions, and yet there were jurors who couldn’t figure it out, and one who said, “I know he said to disregard that evidence, but I’m not going to.” I’d prefer to stay out of court if at all possible.

[Steve O]

@JanaeBixby 181818 wrote:

Anyone notice the new “slow” and “stop” lettering accompanied by a white solid line (like that on the road where a car gets to a 4-way intersection) AT EVERY INTERSECTION along the bike route infront of the wharf?

More and more I just get on Maine and ride on it the same way I did 6 years ago before they started this whole mess.

[SpaceJockey]

Here’s a question that I hope has not yet been addressed ad nauseam:
On the wharf side of Maine Ave there is a clearly marked lane for bikes and one for pedestrians…..Why is it that the bike lane is made of speed-robbing rubber and the pedestrian lane is made of plantar-fasciitis-inducing concrete? Wouldn’t it make more sense for the bikes to have the concrete and the peds to have the rubber?

Understand storefronts likely prefer concrete to shuttle their wares in and out, however, every morning I get cut off by guys pushing trolleys across both lanes from Maine Ave to the storefront, which is not only harder for them to do, it chews up the rubber of the bike lane as well……Just does not make sense.

[Author]

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