Lynn Street Esplanade and Custis Trail Improvements – 2018/2019

[bentbike33]

On a recent afternoon commute, I noticed another stupid about this project. The right-turn slip lane from Lee Hwy to Oak Street is now open, and a right-turn arrow, which turns on when Oak Street has the green and Lee Hwy has red, has been added for traffic in that lane. This light can only be seen by west-bound trail users. Given how often there is no traffic coming out of Oak Street on its green light, many Custis users cross the empty Oak Street on the Lee Hwy red, and in the past drivers turning right on red would generally yield to crosswalk users. With the new green arrow, I’m sure some drivers will feel entitled not to yield, and if there is a crash, liability will be in dispute.

[ShawnoftheDread]

What’s to dispute? There’s a red right arrow with a Walk sign and a green right arrow with a Don’t Walk sign. Proceed accordingly.

[musclys]

@ShawnoftheDread 195181 wrote:

What’s to dispute? There’s a red right arrow with a Walk sign and a green right arrow with a Don’t Walk sign. Proceed accordingly.

I mean, technically you can dispute anything. (Merica!) But from a legal standpoint, the cyclist in that scenario would be — and I’m pretty sure this is the technical term used in the Restatement of Torts (2nd) — screwed.

[dasgeh]

@bentbike33 195170 wrote:

On a recent afternoon commute, I noticed another stupid about this project. The right-turn slip lane from Lee Hwy to Oak Street is now open, and a right-turn arrow, which turns on when Oak Street has the green and Lee Hwy has red, has been added for traffic in that lane. This light can only be seen by west-bound trail users. Given how often there is no traffic coming out of Oak Street on its green light, many Custis users cross the empty Oak Street on the Lee Hwy red, and in the past drivers turning right on red would generally yield to crosswalk users. With the new green arrow, I’m sure some drivers will feel entitled not to yield, and if there is a crash, liability will be in dispute.

I love this change. When I’m riding downhill, I can confidently proceed with the walk sign, without worrying a car will whip a right turn into me (it’s happened). Now cars get to go when cyclists and trail users shouldn’t go. Cars shouldn’t go when trail users get to go. Easy peasy.

Also, there’s no slip lane. There’s a right turn lane.

[bentbike33]

@ShawnoftheDread 195181 wrote:

What’s to dispute? There’s a red right arrow with a Walk sign and a green right arrow with a Don’t Walk sign. Proceed accordingly.

Actually, there is no red right arrow there. Just a green one. So except when the light is yellow, the right turn from Lee Hwy to Oak St. is always “green”. Before, there was the presumption that right turning cars would follow the right-turn-on-red rules and stop before turning. With the green arrow, that presumption is gone. Proceed accordingly, indeed.

[bentbike33]

@dasgeh 195184 wrote:

I love this change. When I’m riding downhill, I can confidently proceed with the walk sign, without worrying a car will whip a right turn into me (it’s happened). Now cars get to go when cyclists and trail users shouldn’t go. Cars shouldn’t go when trail users get to go. Easy peasy.

Also, there’s no slip lane. There’s a right turn lane.

Observed the lights and not just the cars today, and agree this makes sense. My stupid, objection withdrawn.

[sjclaeys]

@dasgeh 195184 wrote:

I love this change. When I’m riding downhill, I can confidently proceed with the walk sign, without worrying a car will whip a right turn into me (it’s happened). Now cars get to go when cyclists and trail users shouldn’t go. Cars shouldn’t go when trail users get to go. Easy peasy.

Also, there’s no slip lane. There’s a right turn lane.

A big +1 to ArlCo for doing this, just don’t let it go to your head.

[huskerdont]

And don’t let’s get overconfident. People still routinely ignore the no-turn-on-red signs, both here and at Ft. Myer. Oak is arguably worse though because of the lack of a sightline and the increased speed potential from the downhill.

[scoot]

@huskerdont 195200 wrote:

And don’t let’s get overconfident. People still routinely ignore the no-turn-on-red signs, both here and at Ft. Myer. Oak is arguably worse though because of the lack of a sightline and the increased speed potential from the downhill.

Right-turning drivers have a tendency to assume that they too can go whenever they see a green light to go straight. I’ve seen a lot of drivers run reds under similar circumstances at 22nd & M, Duke & W Taylor Run, Calvert & Connecticut, etc.

From a legal perspective the new design is great, since it removes all doubt about right-of-way. But I certainly wouldn’t advise lowering one’s guard; I’d expect poor compliance from drivers here too.

(Counter-argument: There is reason to believe that drivers might obey this one better than the other examples. Since the location off Oak Street is both residential and doesn’t attract cut-through traffic, likely a larger fraction of the drivers turning here will be regulars who will have become familiar with this intersection dynamic.)

[ShawnoftheDread]

@bentbike33 195186 wrote:

Observed the lights and not just the cars today, and agree this makes sense. My stupid, objection withdrawn.

Wait, someone on the Internet changed his mind?!

[bentbike33]

@ShawnoftheDread 195236 wrote:

Wait, someone on the Internet changed his mind?!

I’m hoping to start a trend.

[arlcxrider]

I was almost right-hooked there (Lee Hwy. and Oak) last week. I had the walk signal westbound, driver had a red arrow, but made the turn anyway, without stopping. The sign says “no turn on red.” In other places I’ve seen “no turn on red” with a red arrow below, to make it clearer.

Another bad intersection on my normal commute routes is Pershing and Arlington Blvd. Lots of drivers blaze through a right-turn-on-red without stopping first (or even slowing very much). It’s a trouble spot that could use some police enforcement. Dedicated right turn lanes seem to present an “attractive nuisance” to a certain sub-set of inattentive and aggressive drivers.

[dasgeh]

@arlcxrider 196086 wrote:

I was almost right-hooked there (Lee Hwy. and Oak) last week. I had the walk signal westbound, driver had a red arrow, but made the turn anyway, without stopping. The sign says “no turn on red.” In other places I’ve seen “no turn on red” with a red arrow below, to make it clearer.

Another bad intersection on my normal commute routes is Pershing and Arlington Blvd. Lots of drivers blaze through a right-turn-on-red without stopping first (or even slowing very much). It’s a trouble spot that could use some police enforcement. Dedicated right turn lanes seem to present an “attractive nuisance” to a certain sub-set of inattentive and aggressive drivers.

My guess is that the scofflaw drivist at Lee & Oak knew what he was doing was wrong and did it anyway. No amount of signage will help that. From what I’ve seen, drivists are obeying the new signal and it’s lovely.

On Pershing & Arlington Blvd, PLEASE email police@arlingtonva.us. They’ll do some ST enforement, but it helps if it comes from the public. TIA

[arlrider]

So is this the right spot for discussion of the reworked crossing of Doom? I did a good bit ‘o searching and couldn’t find anything newer…

As of last week the NE corner of the IoD has been re-opened in what appears to be its more-or-less permanent configuration – what do others think? Personally, I think it’s somehow, if this is possible, even more dangerous than before – the fact that the N/S crosswalk is now set in from the traffic lane by ~10 feet just gives even more real estate for the drivers to crawl along into when making their precious right turns on red. And now, because it’s such a protracted procedure to do so, they’re paying even less attention than previous to the bikes/peds crossing Lynn as they inch forward to gain visibility, all while looking left.

How this is going to work when the actual esplanade opens and people are actually using the N/S crosswalk, I can’t even imagine – I think people will be mowed down en masse there. Of course if ACPD put an officer on duty station there 24/7 (which they won’t), the resulting revenue could reduce our property taxes by 50%…

I’d imagine there is plenty of other discussion already and I’m in the wrong place, so please point me to the right thread!

[DrP]

IOD area update 1:
I noticed almost 2 weeks ago that the monolith is now up and running! Numbers aren’t too high, as expected given the current situation.
However, I also noticed that the trail had been marked to have double-double diamond sensors for each side of the trail (two side-by-side for trail width and two-front-to-back for direction). However, the actual installation is only one pair of sensors for side of the trail. They give the width of the trail, but not the direction of travel. Given the width of the trail, it is more likely that the side of the trail will give direction, but that is definitely not guaranteed. Not sure if the construction crew didn’t understand or if the monolith could only take four inputs.

IOD area update 2:
The trail on the south side of the IOD is now full width (same as on the island between Ft Meyers Drive and Lynn St), for a short bit. This is helpful for crossing the road and getting across safely (except for the light pole), but heading south, the trail goes back to the regular trail width, so there is a quick merge, but there may be enough time when the area is crowded again. Also the sidewalk on Lynn St is open again.

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