Let’s talk about e scooters

[lordofthemark]

I mean yeah, I know we are the BIKE forum, but really, I can’t think of a better informed group of people to talk about this with.

Lets NOT talk about where they should be parked (which is the same argument, almost, as the dockless bikes) or whether they should be used on certain crowded trails (a similar argument to the ebike argument, I guess). I want to talk about riding them on streets, in bike lanes, on sidewalks (yup, though I haven’t, yet) in more or less urban areas. (there was already some discussion in the dockless bikes thread, but I think it will get lost there)

Personally while I found riding one interesting, I think I would always prefer a bike, dockless or CaBi, human powered or electric, over a scooter. I found starting it awkward, footing awkward, and hard to get used to having only the one brake, and how the hell do I signal? OTOH I think that is both because I am an “avid” cyclist (so don’t find mounting or dismounting a bike to be a big deal at all) and because as someone born back in the good old days, I missed the scooter craze (and snow board craze, and never did skate boards) So riding with my feet flat down like that is not natural, and the kick to get started is not natural.

Where to ride – I tried it around the Capital Riverfront area – so quiet, griddy streets, and relatively empty bike lanes. Felt odd riding (and esp making left turns) “vehicularly” but that is what you are supposed to do, I guess?

They are not supposed to be used on sidewalks, per Limebike, though I gather its legal to use scooters on sidewalks (does the CBD sidewalk ban apply to scooters as well as bikes). I did not violate that rule, but there are places I would be tempted to.

It said you should wear a helmet. I did not, and gather most users do not?

You could “pause” your ride, which is a fascinating feature. Though I chose not to use it.

I trust we all welcome them into bike lanes? I mean I don’t know about the actual crowded bike lanes (like 15th Street) but I sure think more use of our infra is good (surprise!) and they seem compatible. And, ONE LESS CAR.

Seems like one benefit is you can ride them without fear of getting your clothes caught or dirty with a chain – but all the bike share bikes have chain guards, maybe?

Topic

[huskerdont]

@ChristoB50 191256 wrote:

Rollerblading can be so hard! I’m thinking this could be the next great shared-transport opportunity ripe for some “disruption” — imagine if you had some powered boost when you needed it (hey, you can control the amount thrust while using an app on your phone; you don’t really need to watch the road ahead; we’ll build in some obstacle-avoiding tech!) and perhaps add some micro suspension for those buckled bits of trail pavement… When your done, just tie the laces together and toss them over the nearest power lines for the next user!

What could possiblie go wrong?

[ATTACH=CONFIG]20123[/ATTACH]

https://tinyurl.com/y4svd4g9

[mstone]

@ChristoB50 191256 wrote:

Rollerblading can be so hard! I’m thinking this could be the next great shared-transport opportunity ripe for some “disruption” — imagine if you had some powered boost when you needed it

old news–that’s already a thing

[ltierstein]

Well, it finally happened: I crashed into an e-scooter parked near the edge of a bike/ped path, on the pavement. I was crossing the Key Bridge into Rosslyn last night. The block in front of the Marriott hotel is not well lit, and I was using my back-up light (the better light having been stolen recently, and just replaced by a new light that was at home, charging.) I didn’t even see the thing. Luckily, I was going very slowly, so there was minimal damage to my body and none I could see to the bike. A passerby (walker) stopped to help me. Next time I see a scooter parked smack dab in a walkway or path, I’m going to throw it on the grass, or over the bridge if it’s on one of the bridges.

[huskerdont]

@ltierstein 191376 wrote:

Well, it finally happened: I crashed into an e-scooter parked near the edge of a bike/ped path, on the pavement. I was crossing the Key Bridge into Rosslyn last night. The block in front of the Marriott hotel is not well lit, and I was using my back-up light (the better light having been stolen recently, and just replaced by a new light that was at home, charging.) I didn’t even see the thing. Luckily, I was going very slowly, so there was minimal damage to my body and none I could see to the bike. A passerby (walker) stopped to help me. Next time I see a scooter parked smack dab in a walkway or path, I’m going to throw it on the grass, or over the bridge if it’s on one of the bridges.

Glad you were okay-ish. I concur with tossing on the grass. I realize you’re likely just venting, but please to not be letting your worser instincts get the best of you re throwing off a bridge. Pollution, and you might just hit a sculler or someone else.

[wheelswings]

Leslie – very sorry to hear about this crash.
E-scooters were the main topic of our Bicycle Advisory Committee this week. The representatives from Bolt and Lyme took part in the meeting and seemed genuinely concerned about making things safer. Do you have any idea which company the e-scooter was from? It’s worth giving them a call – they say they’re trying to be data-driven and to develop solutions and incentives to increase car-free transportation in a safe way. The numbers are on the Arlington Shared Mobility website, and you’ll also see a link to the survey that Arlington is doing on Shared Mobility Devices. Your input will be valuable.
https://transportation.arlingtonva.us/scooters-and-dockless-bikeshare/
Sending hugs,
w&w

[dasgeh]

Glad it wasn’t worse.

If I could require scooter companies to do three things, they would be:
1) Make the scooters reflective/easily seen at night (i.e. not all black)
2) More substantial kickstands, so these things don’t fall.
3) Sweep the trails every [day/week] to get scooters whose batteries have died — it makes sense that this sweep would grab all of the scooters, and not be single-company based.

[Steve O]

@wheels&wings 191385 wrote:

Leslie – very sorry to hear about this crash.
E-scooters were the main topic of our Bicycle Advisory Committee this week. The representatives from Bolt and Lyme took part in the meeting and seemed genuinely concerned about making things safer. Do you have any idea which company the e-scooter was from? It’s worth giving them a call – they say they’re trying to be data-driven and to develop solutions and incentives to increase car-free transportation in a safe way. The numbers are on the Arlington Shared Mobility website, and you’ll also see a link to the survey that Arlington is doing on Shared Mobility Devices. Your input will be valuable.
https://transportation.arlingtonva.us/scooters-and-dockless-bikeshare/
Sending hugs,
w&w

As w&w notes, it was an informative meeting. Minor correction: the representatives were from Lyft and Bolt. Lime was not there.

[huskerdont]

The Post has an article up showing that, according to a poll, 1 in 6 D.C. residents ride e-scooters. So, while they may be unpopular to many who don’t ride them, 16.66% seem to be having fun.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/trafficandcommuting/nearly-1-in-6-dc-residents-ride-e-scooters-according-to-post-schar-school-poll/2019/06/06/8401bdee-887d-11e9-a870-b9c411dc4312_story.html?utm_term=.f1eff3c68adb

I’d probably try one myself except I have bikes so don’t need to.

[sjclaeys]

As I’ve suggested to ArlCo, require the scooter companies to charge the last user of a scooter a fee ($25 or higher) if the scooter is picked up from a location that presents a non-minimal safety threat to others. I’ve often had almost the same encounter as Leslie with abandoned scooters in that area and others.

[mstone]

@sjclaeys 191411 wrote:

As I’ve suggested to ArlCo, require the scooter companies to charge the last user of a scooter a fee ($25 or higher) if the scooter is picked up from a location that presents a non-minimal safety threat to others. I’ve often had almost the same encounter as Leslie with abandoned scooters in that area and others.

so if a kid moves your scooter you get a $25 bill?

[peterw_diy]

@mstone 191412 wrote:

so if a kid moves your scooter you get a $25 bill?

Exactly. This is one of the big problems with dockless – it’s virtually impossible to hold anyone accountable for bad parking or vandalism of the devices. Thus the obstructions and short service life.

[peterw_diy]

@mstone 191412 wrote:

so if a kid moves your scooter you get a $25 bill?

Or even if it’s just knocked over by a raccoon. Totally reasonable.

[Starduster]

Hi. I have joined the party late…but do have a question about governors and max speeds on all these dockless scooters. My understanding is that the dockless ones are capped at a certain speed? I ask because I came across a young man on an e-scooter going SE on Maine Ave. a few nights ago. I am enroute to Ft. McNair to pick up Sue, running with traffic which is doing 30 (in a 25) and I am passed on driver’s right by this scooter at speed. He pulls away, probably doing 35 or more, with a big lean as Maine bears left and becomes M St. What little I could see of his ride in the dark- definitely not a rental- had to be his own. A little larger, with a larger and beefier wheelset. No protective gear… and a truly burly Guardian Angel watchin’ over him?

[phog]

The brushless motor controllers in the rental scooters are sophisticated and programmable by the company for capping top speed, acceleration, setting a charge rate to the battery management board, setting degree of regenerative braking and when it engages, whether the scooter needs to be rolling (and how fast) before the motor will engage, and more.
There are high end e-scooters like the Nanrobot LS7 or RS11-11 that have huge range and go startlingly fast, at a premium price. That may be what you saw.
Rip out ALL the circuitry on a 36v, 300W rental bike, wire in extra cells to boost the battery to 52V, put in your own BMS and generic 48V, 300 watt controller, and you can make the thing move pretty fast for under $30. Not that I would endorse doing such a thing! And it would be primitive, throttle-only… you would no longer have all the refinements, like regenerative braking. Plus you would be driving the motor pretty hard. It could reduce the service life of the hub motor.

[n18]

@phog 191430 wrote:

The brushless motor controllers in the rental scooters are sophisticated and programmable by the company for capping top speed, acceleration, setting a charge rate to the battery management board, setting degree of regenerative braking and when it engages, whether the scooter needs to be rolling (and how fast) before the motor will engage, and more.
There are high end e-scooters like the Nanrobot LS7 or RS11-11 that have huge range and go startlingly fast, at a premium price. That may be what you saw.
Rip out ALL the circuitry on a 36v, 300W rental bike, wire in extra cells to boost the battery to 52V, put in your own BMS and generic 48V, 300 watt controller, and you can make the thing move pretty fast for under $30. Not that I would endorse doing such a thing! And it would be primitive, throttle-only… you would no longer have all the refinements, like regenerative braking. Plus you would be driving the motor pretty hard. It could reduce the service life of the hub motor.

He is probably using something like this open source control circuitry and software called VESC, which can be used to develop or test anything that use brushless motors(E-Scooter, E-Bike, etc.). You can buy it from Amazon here, it costs $90, but cheaper if you make it on your own, probably $20 to $50, but requires a huge learning curve, or hiring an engineering firm. The software talks to the hardware using USB, and can configure many parameters, and show realtime response, scroll down for screenshots.

[Author]

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