Let’s talk about e scooters

[lordofthemark]

I mean yeah, I know we are the BIKE forum, but really, I can’t think of a better informed group of people to talk about this with.

Lets NOT talk about where they should be parked (which is the same argument, almost, as the dockless bikes) or whether they should be used on certain crowded trails (a similar argument to the ebike argument, I guess). I want to talk about riding them on streets, in bike lanes, on sidewalks (yup, though I haven’t, yet) in more or less urban areas. (there was already some discussion in the dockless bikes thread, but I think it will get lost there)

Personally while I found riding one interesting, I think I would always prefer a bike, dockless or CaBi, human powered or electric, over a scooter. I found starting it awkward, footing awkward, and hard to get used to having only the one brake, and how the hell do I signal? OTOH I think that is both because I am an “avid” cyclist (so don’t find mounting or dismounting a bike to be a big deal at all) and because as someone born back in the good old days, I missed the scooter craze (and snow board craze, and never did skate boards) So riding with my feet flat down like that is not natural, and the kick to get started is not natural.

Where to ride – I tried it around the Capital Riverfront area – so quiet, griddy streets, and relatively empty bike lanes. Felt odd riding (and esp making left turns) “vehicularly” but that is what you are supposed to do, I guess?

They are not supposed to be used on sidewalks, per Limebike, though I gather its legal to use scooters on sidewalks (does the CBD sidewalk ban apply to scooters as well as bikes). I did not violate that rule, but there are places I would be tempted to.

It said you should wear a helmet. I did not, and gather most users do not?

You could “pause” your ride, which is a fascinating feature. Though I chose not to use it.

I trust we all welcome them into bike lanes? I mean I don’t know about the actual crowded bike lanes (like 15th Street) but I sure think more use of our infra is good (surprise!) and they seem compatible. And, ONE LESS CAR.

Seems like one benefit is you can ride them without fear of getting your clothes caught or dirty with a chain – but all the bike share bikes have chain guards, maybe?

Topic

[huskerdont]

Bike Snob NYC Outside article on sharable e-Scooters in Portland.

https://www.outsideonline.com/2340806/dockless-scooters-cities-pros-cons-bikesnob

[dasgeh]

@AlexandriaBiker 180496 wrote:

A little late to this party but I will throw my .02 in here. I fully support scooters and e-bikes and want to see them in the bike lanes. Anything we can do to increase demand for “alternative transportation lanes” makes them more viable for the community. And scooters and e-bikes offer transportation to people that dont have or dont want access to cars. Yes the riders dont follow the law all the time and that is unfortunate. The same is true for drivers of large gas powered vehicles and that is unfortunate too.

Some people are a$$hats and they will be a$$hats on whatever tool they have available to them. Not news, and not a reason to be against escooters generally, in my book.

[lordofthemark]

https://sf.streetsblog.org/2018/08/28/are-e-scooters-the-key-to-getting-safe-bike-lanes/

[Dewey]

Sobering article in the Post about e-scooters maintenance issues, I was surprised to read about the wide open throttle (WOT) problem, as an ebike owner I would have thought these scooters would have motor inhibitors on the brake levers to cut the power each time the rider pulls a brake lever. https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/economy/scooter-use-is-rising-in-major-cities-so-are-trips-to-the-emergency-room/2018/09/06/53d6a8d4-abd6-11e8-a8d7-0f63ab8b1370_story.html?utm_term=.03f0390e5ab4

[Dewey]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/public-safety/emergency-workers-try-to-rescue-pedestrian-trapped-under-suv-in-dupont-circle/2018/09/21/aec71252-bdaa-11e8-be70-52bd11fe18af_story.html?utm_term=.f0127501a109

Awful, 20 is no age to die, reminds me of the young student run down and killed in a crosswalk by a car exiting Washington circle in Foggy Bottom a couple of years ago. Perhaps DC DOT could look into speeding up the timer on the light outside of rush hours so people aren’t waiting so long for the walk signal. Ought the scooter companies pay to educate riders by subsidizing e-scootering classes? Something like the WABA City cycling class with new drills for riding an e-scooter on sidewalks, in traffic, and navigating traffic circles.

[hozn]

This e-scooter craze is intriguing. From a transportation perspective this makes so much more sense to me than bike-share e-bikes (or non-assist bike-share bikes): they go fast enough, are far more compact/maneuverable, can be ridden more places (even if they shouldn’t be), and have a lower barrier to entry. If you’re trying to just save time on a couple-mile errand, who wants to actually pedal a damn bicycle!? I mean, it’s not going to do anything to further cycling itself, so *we* might be sad, but honestly even I would rather use an e-scooter than an e-bike if it’s just about speeding up pedestrian transportation. And it’s not like an e-bike is doing anything to further the sport of cycling, so no love lost there. Sure, bikes could haul more stuff, so maybe we’ll see some bikeshare e-cargo bikes that might differentiate themselves. But that’s still gonna be a tiny percentage of the people who want to speed up their walk to the metro or the drug store.

It’s a bit funny that e-bikes have been such a point of controversy. The real future of e-assist transportation probably looks a lot more like this.

And, yeah, it’s also going to generate its due share of controversy. Just the other evening in Clarendon a couple of dudes in brown flipflops were zigzagging through peds on the sidewalk at 12+mph like a bunch of jackasses. Hey, maybe it’ll shift the target of all the hatred away from bikes.

[lordofthemark]

@hozn 181393 wrote:

This e-scooter craze is intriguing. From a transportation perspective this makes so much more sense to me than bike-share e-bikes (or non-assist bike-share bikes): they go fast enough, are far more compact/maneuverable, can be ridden more places (even if they shouldn’t be), and have a lower barrier to entry. If you’re trying to just save time on a couple-mile errand, who wants to actually pedal a damn bicycle!? I mean, it’s not going to do anything to further cycling itself, so *we* might be sad, but honestly even I would rather use an e-scooter than an e-bike if it’s just about speeding up pedestrian transportation. And it’s not like an e-bike is doing anything to further the sport of cycling, so no love lost there. Sure, bikes could haul more stuff, so maybe we’ll see some bikeshare e-cargo bikes that might differentiate themselves. But that’s still gonna be a tiny percentage of the people who want to speed up their walk to the metro or the drug store.

It’s a bit funny that e-bikes have been such a point of controversy. The real future of e-assist transportation probably looks a lot more like this.

And, yeah, it’s also going to generate its due share of controversy. Just the other evening in Clarendon a couple of dudes in brown flipflops were zigzagging through peds on the sidewalk at 12+mph like a bunch of jackasses. Hey, maybe it’ll shift the target of all the hatred away from bikes.

I would question that escooter net can go more places than bikeshare bikes -neither should be ridden on a crowded sidewalk, and either can be ridden on an empty sidewalk. Maybe there are some grey area sidewalks where its appropriate to ride an escooter but not a bike. I definitely find a bike feels safer on a wider variety of rides, because its easier to signal and to brake, and I feel you are a bit more visible. Both of course are fine in bike lanes.

There are clearly some people who feel comfortable on a scooter (the RAZR scooter generation?) and not so comfortable on a bike, especially when wearing business clothes. I am glad this expands the possibilities for non auto transportation and last mile from transit issues (I hope its not all walking substitution) and also glad this expands the constituency for safe streets and for bike infra. But I don’t think this will at all obviate the importance of bike share.

[Drewdane]

I finally came across one outside my office yesterday and decided to give it a try. It was mildly terrifying, but nothing I couldn’t get used to. I did come away with the impression that CaBi and plain ol’ hoofing it are all the options I really need, though. YMMV.

[TwoWheelsDC]

@hozn 181393 wrote:

This e-scooter craze is intriguing. From a transportation perspective this makes so much more sense to me than bike-share e-bikes (or non-assist bike-share bikes): they go fast enough, are far more compact/maneuverable, can be ridden more places (even if they shouldn’t be), and have a lower barrier to entry. If you’re trying to just save time on a couple-mile errand, who wants to actually pedal a damn bicycle!? I mean, it’s not going to do anything to further cycling itself, so *we* might be sad, but honestly even I would rather use an e-scooter than an e-bike if it’s just about speeding up pedestrian transportation. And it’s not like an e-bike is doing anything to further the sport of cycling, so no love lost there. Sure, bikes could haul more stuff, so maybe we’ll see some bikeshare e-cargo bikes that might differentiate themselves. But that’s still gonna be a tiny percentage of the people who want to speed up their walk to the metro or the drug store.

It’s a bit funny that e-bikes have been such a point of controversy. The real future of e-assist transportation probably looks a lot more like this.

And, yeah, it’s also going to generate its due share of controversy. Just the other evening in Clarendon a couple of dudes in brown flipflops were zigzagging through peds on the sidewalk at 12+mph like a bunch of jackasses. Hey, maybe it’ll shift the target of all the hatred away from bikes.

I seem to remember reading an article a few weeks ago that judged e-bikeshares were ultimately the fastest, followed by e-scooters (I may have that backward…it was close either way, and now I can’t find the article). I haven’t tried a scooter yet (personally I would get on a Jump or CaBi+ before a e-scooter), but my understanding is that scooters are not suited to going up hills of any kind. So around downtown they may be okay, but if you’re going up to Columbia Heights or something, you’ll want to grab a Jump or CaBi+.

[n18]

Few days ago, I observed someone taking his folding Bird-like eScooter on Metro. It took a lot less space than a folding bike. So, I am going to start recommending them.

[hozn]

@TwoWheelsDC 181450 wrote:

I seem to remember reading an article a few weeks ago that judged e-bikeshares were ultimately the fastest, followed by e-scooters (I may have that backward…it was close either way, and now I can’t find the article). I haven’t tried a scooter yet (personally I would get on a Jump or CaBi+ before a e-scooter), but my understanding is that scooters are not suited to going up hills of any kind. So around downtown they may be okay, but if you’re going up to Columbia Heights or something, you’ll want to grab a Jump or CaBi+.

I believe that, but I still feel that a scooter is “fast enough” for cruising around between transport stops without a helmet etc. And it’s only a matter of time before there are stronger motors, etc. Conceptually the scooter makes more sense to me for short trips from pretty much every angle other than “hauling capacity”.

I’d always rather ride *my* bike. But I think I’d rather use an e-scooter than a cabi if I’m just looking for convenient short-trip transportation.

It’ll be interesting to see how it plays out.

[dasgeh]

On scooters, it seems like they are less stable, particularly at speed, and less able to carry stuff than bikes. But they take up less space and they are easier to get on and off than bikes. I don’t think e-assist fundamentally changes those facts, they just make it easier to go faster on either a scooter or a bike.

Given that, I think some people will prefer bikes, and others will prefer scooters. For the rest – people who are fine with either – scooters are probably better for shorter trips (particularly because they are slower), bikes for longer.

Also, early adopters of anything are going to be less risk adverse than the general population. Plus, the first few times anyone uses anything, they’re going to make mistakes/misjudge/etc. Finally, new stuff generally seems weird and stands out to most people. So, I’m not at all surprised that the average person sees people using scooters now as not well-behaved. I imagine that the scooter-ers take risks more than most and that they misjudge how fast they can go in new situations. Also, an adult riding a scooter sticks out to the average person more than other things. And some people are just jerks. But I rather have those jerks on scooters than in a car. We should address putting limits on bad behavior through regulation and infrastructure.

[Dewey]

Alexandria to roll out scooter program The Post’s Gridlock reports the City of Alexandria will run its own scooter trial

[consularrider]

And not an e-scooter to be seen in Frankfurt

[Oldtowner]

According to Catherine Rampell E-scooters are like Q-tips.

“In both cases, the products are marketed with explicit warnings about how not to use them, even though everyone knows that’s precisely the way pretty much every customer will use them.”

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/e-scooters-are-like-q-tips/2018/11/15/432d8e60-e918-11e8-b8dc-66cca409c180_story.html?utm_term=.bdf71c007ed6

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