Joggers assaulting cyclists in the bike lanes

[consularrider]

It’s like a freeway! Note, while I was in Madrid they constructed the Anillo Verde (green ring) route which was a cycling/pedestrian beltway around the city. Most of the route was done by the time I left in 2007 and was similar to that pictured above from Minneapolis, but with narrower lanes.

[NicDiesel]

Yep, that feeds right into the Greenway which is the bike highway there which will take you out to the first ring of the western suburbs, downtown MPLS, and, if you are so adventurous, over to St. Paul. We didn’t see many runners/walkers/dog people outside of the park paths so I can’t speak to what it’s like on the Greenway or in downtown MPLS or St. Paul day in and day out, but I doubt there are many people running in the bike lanes there like here. When I said “it is what is” in my first response to this thread that’s what I was referring to – few paths and too many people trying to use them tends to lead to passive-aggressive incidents that become aggressive far too often.

[DaveK]

I have never altered my course for a runner coming at me in a bike lane and I don’t intend to. I don’t pick a fight with them but I don’t give an inch either. If there were no sidewalks but there was a bike lane, that’s a different story, but I rarely ever see that.

[mstone]

@Terpfan 65786 wrote:

They’re not allowed to run in bike lanes the same way certain jurisdictions forbid us from riding on sidewalks in certain areas

Please don’t encourage the false equivalency between the need for cyclists to find safe transportation routes and joggers making convenience decisions about their recreational activities.

[Terpfan]

@mstone 65802 wrote:

Please don’t encourage the false equivalency between the need for cyclists to find safe transportation routes and joggers making convenience decisions about their recreational activities.

I should have added a disclaimer by us I was trying to say that some scofflaw cyclists ride the sidewalks where they’re not supposed to and it’s for convenience. If you want, I can snap photos of folks riding the sidewalks right next to the L St cycletrack or 15th st one. But it’s certainly a minority of users just like I suspect the issue with joggers is here. In Old Town, I see them on the streets all the time and when I asked one why, he explained because the sidewalks have so many random ruts and angles that they trip over themselves. It made a ton of sense to me since I hate certain MUPs that are the same and so I just sort of accepted it.

[bobco85]

@DaveK 65798 wrote:

I have never altered my course for a runner coming at me in a bike lane and I don’t intend to. I don’t pick a fight with them but I don’t give an inch either. If there were no sidewalks but there was a bike lane, that’s a different story, but I rarely ever see that.

I tend to do the same as if I see a potential dooring up ahead, maintaining my position in the bike lane switching between eye contact and checking over my left shoulder for car traffic so I have room when I inevitably have to drift (not swerve) to the left to avoid a collision. It’s enough to show the lawbreaker that the lane is mine without being threatening.

[mstone]

@Terpfan 65803 wrote:

In Old Town, I see them on the streets all the time and when I asked one why, he explained because the sidewalks have so many random ruts and angles that they trip over themselves. It made a ton of sense to me since I hate certain MUPs that are the same and so I just sort of accepted it.

If you’re engaged in a leisure activity, you can choose to do it on a dead end side street instead of a busy cycletrack, no?

And I think the jury is still out on the safety of the cycletracks, at least insofar as I can’t really fault any given cyclist from being scared to use them. (I can and do fault cyclists if their use of the sidewalk endangers pedestrians–it does not need to.) Again, as much as jogger’s forums want to make this the same thing, there’s a fundamental difference between someone needing to get somewhere on a bike and being afraid to take the road, and a jogger choosing to recreate in a spot that’s endangering other people out of sheer cussedness. That isn’t to say that no cyclists are just being assholes, but at least the possibility exists that they’re simply victims of the infrastructure trying to get somewhere; the odds that a jogger in the bike lane is similarly engaged in basic transportation are vanishingly remote.

[dasgeh]

nicdiesel;65792 wrote:

funny you should mention that dickie. When we were house hunting in the twin cities last week we noticed at almost all of the minneapolis parks there are two separate paths – one for joggers and marked as such and another for cyclists with a white stenciled stick figure with a circle and a slash through it. I meant to take a shot of it but didn’t but here’s how it works in cedar lake:
[attach=config]3772[/attach]

custis in rosslyn. Custis in rosslyn

[Guus]

@dasgeh 65766 wrote:

BTW, you may have been able to avoid that stretch of bike lane altogether. I often come up the hill on 15th, then take Veitch to Key to get around Courthouse/Clarendon. I find those bike lanes to be the worst in my travels in terms of joggers in the bike lane…

I second that — Key Boulevard is much more pleasant than the bike lanes on Wilson/Clarendon. Traffic is slower and much less crowded.

[runbike]

@TwoWheelsDC 65783 wrote:

You win the internet for the day. Also, hi neighbor!

Way cool! I’ve entered so many times but never won before. And a neighborly hello to you as well!

[baiskeli]

@Terpfan 65786 wrote:

They’re not allowed to run in bike lanes the same way certain jurisdictions forbid us from riding on sidewalks in certain areas (DC, OT, etc).

Not sure if I understand you, but I’m pretty sure that pedestrians are not allowed in bike lanes that are in the street ever, any more than they are allowed in the other lanes.

[dasgeh]

@Terpfan 65803 wrote:

I should have added a disclaimer by us I was trying to say that some scofflaw cyclists ride the sidewalks where they’re not supposed to and it’s for convenience. If you want, I can snap photos of folks riding the sidewalks right next to the L St cycletrack or 15th st one. But it’s certainly a minority of users just like I suspect the issue with joggers is here. In Old Town, I see them on the streets all the time and when I asked one why, he explained because the sidewalks have so many random ruts and angles that they trip over themselves. It made a ton of sense to me since I hate certain MUPs that are the same and so I just sort of accepted it.

One big difference is that it is possible to ride a bike on a sidewalk in a way that doesn’t endanger pedestrians (i.e. slowly). It is not possible for a jogger to be in a bike lane without endangering cyclists.

[DismalScientist]

@dasgeh 65905 wrote:

It is not possible for a jogger to be in a bike lane without endangering cyclists.

I’ve encountered joggers in the bike lane and have never felt particularly endangered.

[dasgeh]

@DismalScientist 65918 wrote:

I’ve encountered joggers in the bike lane and have never felt particularly endangered.

Cyclists have every right to, and it is often safer to, ride at speed in the bike lane. You’re lucky that you haven’t encountered one when you’ve been at speed, you couldn’t see them much before you came up on them, and you were boxed in by cars. That’s the dangerous situation.

[elcee]

@DismalScientist 65739 wrote:

It’s really a shame they don’t make full size frame pumps anymore.:rolleyes:

…

Not to hijack the thread, but yes, there are still full-size frame pumps:

http://www.zefal.com/en/traditional-pumps/109-hpx-classic.htmlj

I’ve had my Zefal HP-X for 20 years, and it’s still going strong. The real issue is that frames no longer have pump pegs.

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