Joggers assaulting cyclists in the bike lanes

[NicDiesel]

Imma make this quick – if you’re going to be passive aggressive be prepared for someone to get aggressive with you. Is it fair? No, but that’s the price you pay living here.

[jrenaut]

My understanding, and this may be DC and not Virginia, is that a bike lane is a street, and it’s illegal to jog in the street.

I agree – you should try not to be so confrontational, though i completely understand and have done exactly what you’ve done in the same situation. But what Dirt has taught me, and what I aspire to, is that no good will come from being confrontational. If you yell at someone and put them on the defensive, they aren’t going to be open to your criticism, even if you are 100% right. If you can swallow your pride and your anger (and believe me, I know this is much easier to type than it is to do) and be friendly about it, you’ll get a few converts. Not all, even if you’re the nicest person in the world about it, but you’ll get some. Some is better than none, so we should all try to be friendly.

If all else fails, remember that you have momentum and a helmet.

[mstone]

1) get a bell

2) http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504.exe?000+cod+46.2-928 the bike lane is part of the roadway

[DismalScientist]

It’s really a shame they don’t make full size frame pumps anymore.:rolleyes:

You were assaulted, plain and simple. He has no right to be in the roadway, although I would cut him slack if he were polite about it.

[jrenaut]

@DismalScientist 65739 wrote:

He has no right to be in the roadway, although I would cut him slack if he were polite about it.

Yes, this. I am inclined to let joggers, pedestrians, Segways, scooters, and mounted policepersons use the bike lane so long as they are being polite about it.

[KLizotte]

@jrenaut 65742 wrote:

Yes, this. I am inclined to let joggers, pedestrians, Segways, scooters, and mounted policepersons use the bike lane so long as they are being polite about it.

I’ll allow the latter three but hate it when the first two (especially the joggers) are in the bike lanes, esp since they are usually running against traffic and expect me to move around them. We’ve got enough to worry about when riding without having to deal with someone who may jog left, right, or straight ahead. Plus runners have far more places to run than we do, like sidewalks.

And yes, it is illegal to run in the bike lane.

[jrenaut]

@KLizotte 65746 wrote:

I’ll allow the latter three but hate it when the first two (especially the joggers) are in the bike lanes, esp since they are usually running against traffic and expect me to move around them. We’ve got enough to worry about when riding without having to deal with someone who may jog left, right, or straight ahead. Plus runners have far more places to run than we do, like sidewalks.

And yes, it is illegal to run in the bike lane.

That’s not being polite, though. Joggers going with traffic in the bike lane who seem at least somewhat aware that they’re in our space don’t bother me that much.

[PotomacCyclist]

The thread of the title makes it sounds as though hordes of runners are assaulting cyclists left and right. While I won’t defend that guy for knocking you over (which was assault), I won’t bash all runners either. (I’m a cyclist and a runner.) As far as I know, there isn’t an epidemic of runners assaulting cyclists in bike lanes or elsewhere.

I don’t like riding on trails during the busiest hours, for various reasons. Yes, I get frustrated with all the runners wearing earphones. Most of those people don’t hear anything around them, including bells, calls of “on your left” and cars at intersections. But I also get frustrated by aggressive cyclists (who will cross the yellow line to pass and force cyclists on the other side of the trail to veer off) and, when I’m running, cyclists who don’t call passes at all. (I’m not forgetting all of the aggressive car drivers out there either. Interestingly, most of my problems with car drivers happen when I’m in the role of a pedestrian who is walking in a crosswalk with the WALK signal and I get into the intersection well before the car driver arrives at that point.)

I’ll second the suggestion to play nice, even when someone else is not following all the rules. (I also admit that I don’t always follow the suggestion to be non-confrontational. But sometimes I just make a simple factual statement, like “you’re going the wrong way” and I get a heated response.)

[bobco85]

@CycleNinja 65731 wrote:

I need your help with this one Arlington.

I was heading west on Wilson Blvd this afternoon coming through Courthouse. I passed about 4 people jogging in the bike lane between Rosslyn and Courthouse. One of whom even had a dog with him was over the line in to the street.

Finally, the fifth jogger I encountered was running the “wrong” direction dead center in the bike lane and clearly refusing to move as I was approaching.

I opened my big mouth and said “Get out of the bike lane”.

Not only was he yelling at me about having the right of way in the bike lane but, he actually pushed my bike over while I was on it and tried to knock me to the ground.

When I asked him if he wanted to explain to the cops why he just assaulted me, his response of course was, I didn’t touch you, I touched your bike.

I guess what I haven’t been able to figure out is, does he have the right of way?

Here is the VA legal definition of Bicycle Lane:
“Bicycle lane” means that portion of a roadway designated by signs and/or pavement markings for the preferential use of bicycles, electric power-assisted bicycles, and mopeds.

It doesn’t explicitly deny pedestrians the right to use the lane, which makes sense, otherwise how would people get in and out of their parked cars?
I am also under the impression that all vehicles have to yield the right of way to pedestrians. I’m not sure how that works in this scenario…

Many states do say it’s illegal to be occupying the lane when there is a sidewalk available but I couldn’t find anything about that for Virginia.

Whether or not he did assault me was something I could take up with the police if I really cared to pursue it.

I gave up riding on the shared trails a while ago because of all the joggers. My throat hurts like hell after an hour of yelling “On your left” over and over and over.
Most joggers have headphones in and never hear you anyway and I’ve crashed 4 bikes because of joggers doing blind u-turns in the middle of the trail and plowing right in to me.

Now it’s not even safe for a cyclist to ride in a dedicated bicycle lane?

I really should just be the better man and keep my mouth shut next time but, I would at least like to know whether or not they’re in the wrong.

Taking your story at face value, do you have a description of the perp? I mean, if this guy is willing to put his hands on one cyclist, he is likely to do the same to others.

For the jogger, as it has been pointed out earlier by mstone, the jogger was breaking the law as a pedestrian by not using the sidewalk. Since he also put his hands on you via your bicycle, it’s assault because he used your bicycle as an object to intimidate or inflict harm on you.

Now, giving further analysis into your story, you have left out important details that would better explain why this seems to have escalated so quickly (I’m not passing blame but trying to draw a better understanding of the situation). What happened between the time you said “Get out of the bike lane” and him yelling at you? Did you stop in directly in front of him or like 10 feet in front of him? Did you slam on your brakes or slow to a stop? Did you get in his face or did he get in your face when you were arguing (I am assuming arguing occurred before anything physical)?

Regarding joggers in bike lanes, I think anyone using the bike lane should be going in the same direction as traffic. If you’re going to break the law by being in the bike lane, at least you can be a little courteous and go with traffic.

[dasgeh]

Yes, the jogger was breaking the law: http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504.exe?000+cod+46.2-928

§ 46.2-928. Pedestrians not to use roadway except when necessary; keeping to left.

Pedestrians shall not use the roadways for travel, except when necessary to do so because of the absence of sidewalks which are reasonably suitable and passable for their use. If they walk on the hard surface, or the main travelled portion of the roadway, they shall keep to the extreme left side or edge thereof, or where the shoulders of the highway are of sufficient width to permit, they may walk on either shoulder thereof.

I don’t blame you – that guy was a jerk. It helps me to think about my ultimate goal in such situations. Usually, that is to get home safe and have a pleasant day. There may have been another way to achieve that goal. Not that that excuses the jerk.

BTW, you may have been able to avoid that stretch of bike lane altogether. I often come up the hill on 15th, then take Veitch to Key to get around Courthouse/Clarendon. I find those bike lanes to be the worst in my travels in terms of joggers in the bike lane…

[runbike]

Ah but here’s a key factor we’re all missing – what those runners/joggers are doing cannot even be considered running/jogging. It’s actually the ritual mating display of the species known as “Clarendon Male”. You see, no self-respecting runner/jogger/whatever would choose to run more than a block along Wilson. Too many cars and people and running is not enjoyable when you’re choking on exhaust and/or dodging pedestrians on the sidewalk the entire time. That’s why most runners will stick to the trails on quieter side streets. However, for “Clarendon Male” the whole purpose is to get out there, run really fast for about a mile, and try to gin up as many craigslist missed connections as possible.

Clarendon Male is easily spotted if you know to look for these distinctive features:
– Running in the bike lane (makes sure that the greatest possible number of people can see him and his awesomeness).
– Frequently shirtless (sun’s out, guns out)
– Wears long mesh lax shorts, virtually guaranteeing that he is able to run no more than a mile and a half.

[Dickie]

Ughh, my first thought sadly is “do I really want to get involved in this debate?”. However, the facts are pretty simple. The runner was breaking the law as illustrated so clearly already, and the runner assaulted you… there is no grey area here! Whatever happened to elevate the situation (although probably avoidable) is irrelevant. Two people screaming at each other sucks, but the minute verbal assault becomes physical it’s a crime plain and simple. You should have reported it. In fact if you were verbally threatened that too can be considered assault!

In regards to runners in the bike lane, I have little sympathy. Yes, most of the time sharing the bike lane is not unreasonable and takes little away from my safety, however in those few occasions when you are forced to make an instant decision your life can change in a heart beat. Avoiding a head on collision on a down hill by veering unpredictably out of my lane, making a rash decision to leave my lane due to a runner entering it without looking, and nearly going over my handlebars due to a runner stopping suddenly to check her phone are all situations I have encountered and luckily survived. The bike lanes protect me, part of their purpose is my safety. I can only assume a runner is in that lane for convenience, a luxury I don’t necessarily have. A runner might argue that being on the sidewalk is dangerous too, but a collision there will ruin your day, a collision for me might end it.

Until I see a white stencil of a runner in the lane next to the bike stencil and the law changes I see no reason why you should be there. Now, I used to try explaining this to the offenders and as many of you have described, it only amounted to ugly situations. I now keep my mouth shut and ride on past… but that isn’t solving the problem and sooner or later is’s going to haunt me.

[TwoWheelsDC]

@run/bike 65779 wrote:

Ah but here’s a key factor we’re all missing – what those runners/joggers are doing cannot even be considered running/jogging. It’s actually the ritual mating display of the species known as “Clarendon Male”. You see, no self-respecting runner/jogger/whatever would choose to run more than a block along Wilson. Too many cars and people and running is not enjoyable when you’re choking on exhaust and/or dodging pedestrians on the sidewalk the entire time. That’s why most runners will stick to the trails on quieter side streets. However, for “Clarendon Male” the whole purpose is to get out there, run really fast for about a mile, and try to gin up as many craigslist missed connections as possible.

Clarendon Male is easily spotted if you know to look for these distinctive features:
– Running in the bike lane (makes sure that the greatest possible number of people can see him and his awesomeness).
– Frequently shirtless (sun’s out, guns out)
– Wears long mesh lax shorts, virtually guaranteeing that he is able to run no more than a mile and a half.

You win the internet for the day. Also, hi neighbor!

[Terpfan]

They’re not allowed to run in bike lanes the same way certain jurisdictions forbid us from riding on sidewalks in certain areas (DC, OT, etc). With that said, there is zero enforcement of this and it’s one of those just go along to get along sort of things. When they do it, I just usually pass very closely to them both for my own safety if I have to jut into a roadway and to make a point. However, I hate engaging with them.

Agree 100% on the crazy ivan moves. I had a couple do it last night to me, but before I even said a word, they apologized. People aren’t perfect and I accept it. Besides, I see plenty of fellow cyclist scofflaws–particularly with calling passes or making insane passes.

As for the assault part, just because he didn’t touch you personally doesn’t mean it’s not assault. Look at it in reverse if you intentionally ran into him with your bike or say with a motorized vehicle, it could be treated as an assault, hit and run, etc.

[NicDiesel]

@Dickie 65781 wrote:

Until I see a white stencil of a runner in the lane next to the bike stencil and the law changes I see no reason why you should be there. Now, I used to try explaining this to the offenders and as many of you have described, it only amounted to ugly situations. I now keep my mouth shut and ride on past… but that isn’t solving the problem and sooner or later is’s going to haunt me.

Funny you should mention that Dickie. When we were house hunting in the Twin Cities last week we noticed at almost all of the Minneapolis parks there are two separate paths – one for joggers and marked as such and another for cyclists with a white stenciled stick figure with a circle and a slash through it. I meant to take a shot of it but didn’t but here’s how it works in Cedar Lake:
[ATTACH=CONFIG]3772[/ATTACH]

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