Is the Lynn/Lee Hwy intersection in Rosslyn safer?

[ShawnoftheDread]

The LPI with no right on red has helped. I’m sure the am police presence has helped too.

[Rootchopper]

The police presence did the trick. You don’t see as much aggressive driving as before. It’s still a damned scary place to ride a bike though.

[chris_s]

It really is better than it was. Still not my favorite intersection, but no longer the crazy death trap it once was. Much of the credit needs to go to Arlington PD though, not just DES.

[KLizotte]

I don’t ride through there during weekday rush hour but have found that the no turn on red sign to be very useful! Now if only we could get the same thing at the next intersection heading west on the Custis.

[annoyedindc]

@KLizotte 129907 wrote:

I don’t ride through there during weekday rush hour but have found that the no turn on red sign to be very useful! Now if only we could get the same thing at the next intersection heading west on the Custis.

I think that is an always no turn on red light. However, it would be nice to have a leading pedestrian/cyclist timing for the crossing signal too.

[Steve O]

Probably still in the top 5 for close calls, which are hard to measure. I will take a close call over an actual crash any day, though.

It’s good that it’s seemingly safer than before. However, what has already been done can be improved upon even more. One significant, but relatively inexpensive change would be to make drivers aware of the “No Right Turn” light with signage. The most common problem at this intersection is drivers turning right without regard to the light. Most of those, I believe, just don’t see the light. They need to have their attention brought to it ahead of time.

[DrP]

The IOD has definitely improved, but still not perfect. Lots of folks are not looking up when the no right on red comes on and so try to turn. When crossing so that you are head on to the drivers, I have made gestures of “stop” and pointed to the sign and not been run over, although a noticeable fraction still turn (nearly once a week). When crossing in the other direction I move up to be almost in the intersection when the no turn on red is supposed to start in order to grab their attention. I have had folks honk and me and give me the finger should I start crossing when the countdown starts (still double digits! Would they not go through an intersection that just turned yellow?). I think it has been better at rush hour than on weekends because (1) there is little chance to turn on red anyway and (2) more people are daily users of the intersection.

I think the cops have helped a lot. I think the no turn sign needs to start sooner – or have a permanent sign that indicates that there is a potential no turn on red – “No Turn on Red during Walk Signal” or some such thing.

[DismalScientist]

Well, maybe if Arlington would just hang a standard no right turn on red arrow from the bottom of the traffic light things would improve. I don’t see why the county or VDOT chose to engage in non-standard signage here.

It would also help if cyclist would ride this stretch, and adjust speed appropriately, as if they were riding on a sidewalk rather than a trail. After all, they are riding on a sidewalk.

[dasgeh]

It does not seem safer to me. Regular commuters seem to obey the lighted no turn on red, but enough cars don’t that you can’t trust that any driver will. Lately, the only time I’ve seen ACPD there, the officer has been in their car. I have been told there has been no ACPD enforcement in the afternoon/evening, and I find driver behavior reflects that. It seems like we’ve been lucky with no collisions lately.

@KLizotte 129907 wrote:

I don’t ride through there during weekday rush hour but have found that the no turn on red sign to be very useful! Now if only we could get the same thing at the next intersection heading west on the Custis.

@annoyedindc 129908 wrote:

I think that is an always no turn on red light. However, it would be nice to have a leading pedestrian/cyclist timing for the crossing signal too.

There used to be a “no right turn on red” sign at the intersection of WB Lee and Fort Myer, but it was on the left side of the intersection. Then they took it down. There’s no reason to have an LPI here, because cars that have the green with the walk signal cannot turn right at all (the street is one-way).

@DismalScientist 129913 wrote:

It would also help if cyclist would ride this stretch, and adjust speed appropriately, as if they were riding on a sidewalk rather than a trail. After all, they are riding on a sidewalk.

The biggest speed issue is due to light timing: for cyclists heading east, if you get caught at the light at Fort Myer, you have to haul to make the light at Lynn. Otherwise, you’re stuck at two pretty long reds. The “trail” is plenty wide that it need not cause conflict, but the signage could certainly be improved.

[wheelswings]

I would say the IOD is slightly safer in those first few seconds, as at least some of the regular-commute drivers are aware of the barely-visible miniscule no-right-on-red illumination. Unfortunately many still take the right despite the lit sign so you have to watch carefully and psychoanalyze the drivers. BUT I would say that it’s actually more threatening than before the second the count-down begins – the moment that drivers consider the end of the bike/pedestrian time. If I’m not in the corner launch-area near the start of the few-seconds’ pedestrian time, I need to wait through a full cycle, knowing the cars will be whipping around as soon as the count-down starts…the count-down is a joke from a biker/pedestrian standpoint, as it’s too dangerous to be in the crosswalk. It is particularly unsafe traveling in the westward direction (toward the hotel), which for me is often at night in the dark – I almost always wait out the full cycle even when I arrive during the pedestrian time before the countdown, so I can position my bike at that corner before the pedestrian time begins, in hopes that I will be seen ahead of time. As a result the wait time for us bicycle riders is now is much longer than in the bad old days when we would do-si-do with the cars for the full Walk time.
I am surprised that Arlington considers this situation to be such progress as to make a promotional video.

[mstone]

@dasgeh 129914 wrote:

It does not seem safer to me. Regular commuters seem to obey the lighted no turn on red, but enough cars don’t that you can’t trust that any driver will. Lately, the only time I’ve seen ACPD there, the officer has been in their car. I have been told there has been no ACPD enforcement in the afternoon/evening, and I find driver behavior reflects that. It seems like we’ve been lucky with no collisions lately.

This. The numbers are so small that trying to extract statistical trends from them is a joke.

Quote:

I don’t see why the county or VDOT chose to engage in non-standard signage here.

Because car privilege. This entire farce is because cars aren’t allowed to be held up the way pedestrians are.

[DismalScientist]

@mstone 129925 wrote:

Because car privilege. This entire farce is because cars aren’t allowed to be held up the way pedestrians are.

Exactly how does a sign with a red X over a poorly visible right turn arrow reflect car privilege over a standard no right turn arrow?:confused:

[mstone]

@DismalScientist 129926 wrote:

Exactly how does a sign with a red X over a poorly visible right turn arrow reflect car privilege over a standard no right turn arrow?:confused:

Because the unthinkable (but obvious) alternative is a permanent “no right turn on red” sign. Nothing that intermittently regulates behavior while drivers aren’t looking is going to be reliable.

[DismalScientist]

A stoplight by definition intermittently regulates behavior. Furthermore, a red arrow at the bottom of the stack is nor likely to be “seen” than an X over arrow that is not part of traffic light stack.

Proper signage is a different question than what the rules should be.

[Raymo853]

@KLizotte 129907 wrote:

I don’t ride through there during weekday rush hour but have found that the no turn on red sign to be very useful! Now if only we could get the same thing at the next intersection heading west on the Custis.

I am up for getting rid of right turn on red everywhere for all times. I am old enough to remember the fights over it’s introduction and was not convinced then as a child and am still not.

[Author]

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