How do you change a flat when you’ve got rims that will not seat without soapy water?

[Tania]

This question occurred to me today as I picked my way through glass on my way into work. The only answer I could think of is “designate these rims ‘cross races only’.”

[anomad]

Do you mean a regular tire that takes an inner tube that is really difficult to stretch over the rim? Or are you talking tubeless? With practice you can change even the most stubborn tire/rim combination in the field.

I’m having my first relationship with tubeless mountain bike set up. I’ll be carrying a spare tube or two. I couldn’t get them to seat new without a big air compressor and blowing stan’s all over the neighborhood.

[TwoWheelsDC]

Just embrace living on the edge! And knowing that you don’t really need to worry about carrying around a flat kit….

[Tania]

I can change a tire fine. But these rims will not seat evenly without soapy water (there’s always a section on either/both rims that doesn’t pop and thus is uneven). So regardless if I start out tubed or tubeless, if I get a flat riding into work, there’s no way I can get the tire rideable again without soap.

(They seat great with soapy water and it’s darn satisfying to watch the foamy bubbles creep along the rim until POP! It’s even better to do this when the cat is sleeping.)

[Tania]

@TwoWheelsDC 155503 wrote:

Just embrace living on the edge! And knowing that you don’t really need to worry about carrying around a flat kit….

Ha! So ‘race only rims when you’ve got a pit bike’ it is! 😎

[Emm]

@Tania 155504 wrote:

I can change a tire fine. But these rims will not seat evenly without soapy water (there’s always a section on either/both rims that doesn’t pop and thus is uneven). So regardless if I start out tubed or tubeless, if I get a flat riding into work, there’s no way I can get the tire rideable again without soap.

If you don’t have spare rims handy, can you carry a tiny sized portion of soap with you, and mix it into the water in your water bottle if you flat? they sell really tiny jars/containers you could put a tiny bit of soap into to carry in your pack–I have some containers that I use for cosmetics that are less than an inch by an inch, and seal tight. I mean, no more drinkable water unless you bring a spare water bottle, but at least you’d get to work.

[anomad]

I’d probably just ride on it wobbly if I couldn’t get it to seat completely on the road. I’ve only had one tire that was that stubborn that I can recall. It stretched out after a while.

I wonder if anyone markets tire lube for bicyclists?! It works miracles for motorcycle tires.

[mstone]

That’s one big bottle of lube

[hozn]

This is interesting. I have had tires (Nokians) that wouldn’t fully pop into place; they weren’t tubeless, though, and embarrassingly it never actually occurred to me to use soap (or some sort of lubricant). — I just switched to 45NRTH tires so it became a moot point.

For tubeless setup, I recently switched to using spray-on furniture polish that contains wax. I swear I read that the November folks liked this better than soap …. but damned if I can find it now. Having a spray bottle is nice, though. The wobble would/does annoy me, but not enough to actually carry around soap; I’d just fix it at home if I couldn’t get the bead to pop into place. I’d probably also stop using those tires after the first time that happened to me on the road.

[Tania]

@hozn 155520 wrote:

This is interesting. I have had tires (Nokians) that wouldn’t fully pop into place; they weren’t tubeless, though, and embarrassingly it never actually occurred to me to use soap (or some sort of lubricant). — I just switched to 45NRTH tires so it became a moot point.

For tubeless setup, I recently switched to using spray-on furniture polish that contains wax. I swear I read that the November folks liked this better than soap …. but damned if I can find it now. Having a spray bottle is nice, though. The wobble would/does annoy me, but not enough to actually carry around soap; I’d just fix it at home if I couldn’t get the bead to pop into place. I’d probably also stop using those tires after the first time that happened to me on the road.

It doesn’t seem to be the tires – I’ve had the issue (on these rims) with old school Maxxis Wormdrives, Clement MXP and Strada LGG’s.

The rims are so pretty and match the bike so well, I really don’t want them to be race-only rims (or a race only bike). But I know my other rims are much easier to work with so maybe that’s the way to go. Plus with this bike it’s a crime to race it tubed, so the pretty rims can stay tubeless with cx tires.

[ATTACH=CONFIG]13904[/ATTACH]

[anomad]

Have you tried warming up the tires and putting ~100psi in them? Would be a grunt to fill to that pressure with a hand pump, but it could be done on the trail.

[hozn]

@Tania 155522 wrote:

It doesn’t seem to be the tires – I’ve had the issue (on these rims) with old school Maxxis Wormdrives, Clement MXP and Strada LGG’s.

The rims are so pretty and match the bike so well, I really don’t want them to be race-only rims (or a race only bike). But I know my other rims are much easier to work with so maybe that’s the way to go. Plus with this bike it’s a crime to race it tubed, so the pretty rims can stay tubeless with cx tires.

[ATTACH=CONFIG]13904[/ATTACH]

Ooh, that is pretty. I would keep those too. Are those taped with Stans yellow tape — or equivalent — or do they have an airtight rim strip? If the latter, maybe tape would let the beads “snap in” easier. I wonder if a light layer of grease on the rim (tape) or along tire beads would (1) not wear off and (2) not have any ill effects on sealant, etc. That might be worth a shot, though. I would think that the sealant itself might provide enough lubricant to pop the bead back on, but obviously that hasn’t been your experience.

@anomad 155526 wrote:

Have you tried warming up the tires and putting ~100psi in them? Would be a grunt to fill to that pressure with a hand pump, but it could be done on the trail.

Yeah, this is probably worth trying too. Maybe bigger tubes, if they’re not snapping on trail-side? I was only carrying ~32mm CX tubes for my 2.3″ mountain bike tires and found that those also didn’t like to push out the tire all the way (even though I could get them up to pressure fine). I’m probably the exception there, carrying tubes that are technically too small (I also just carry road tubes for the big-volume cx tires, so I may experience this problem in the future myself). But who has room in jersey pockets to carry a full-size MTB tube(s).

[Tania]

@hozn 155529 wrote:

Ooh, that is pretty. I would keep those too. Are those taped with Stans yellow tape — or equivalent — or do they have an airtight rim strip? If the latter, maybe tape would let the beads “snap in” easier. I wonder if a light layer of grease on the rim (tape) or along tire beads would (1) not wear off and (2) not have any ill effects on sealant, etc. That might be worth a shot, though. I would think that the sealant itself might provide enough lubricant to pop the bead back on, but obviously that hasn’t been your experience.

They came tubeless ready and I had them tubeless for a little bit but they didn’t hold air at all and the tire flatted and rolled on the SO when I let him race it in Dec (doh!). I haven’t had them re-taped yet so I wonder if that wouldn’t help things. I changed the tires several times this weekend (the maxxis didn’t fit in the rear) and I can’t quite remember the color of the tape but I’m going with blue.

Again, they seat great with soapy water (or an air compressor). If it’s ok to ride the wheel with a wobble until I get home/pass a bike shop then I guess it’s all good.

[huskerdont]

@Tania 155533 wrote:

If it’s ok to ride the wheel with a wobble until I get home/pass a bike shop then I guess it’s all good.

That’s what I was wondering–is it okay to do this? I’ve have been careless changing tubes before and didn’t get them to seat properly all around, then a few hours later would hear a loud bang when the tube crept out and blew. Coupla times, actually (to my shame). I wouldn’t want this to happen while riding.

[anomad]

@Tania 155533 wrote:

They came tubeless ready and I had them tubeless for a little bit but they didn’t hold air at all and the tire flatted and rolled on the SO when I let him race it in Dec (doh!). I haven’t had them re-taped yet so I wonder if that wouldn’t help things. I changed the tires several times this weekend (the maxxis didn’t fit in the rear) and I can’t quite remember the color of the tape but I’m going with blue.

Again, they seat great with soapy water (or an air compressor). If it’s ok to ride the wheel with a wobble until I get home/pass a bike shop then I guess it’s all good.

Ooh, if they came taped for tubeless maybe they went a little overboard (too thick) and that is why they are so tight? I would take off all the tape and apply something sensible, like one layer, and see if that makes the difference.

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