"Freeze Points" metric

[vvill]

@jrenaut 134578 wrote:

You only have your top ride of the day counted towards your total? That would penalize those like me who do a lot of short rides (to school with the kids, home, back to school, back home, errand, etc). Last Tuesday I rode 19.6 miles and my longest ride was 2.5 miles.

There is a pause button… or we could double points for #kidical rides. Or whatever.

The concept (as I imagined it) is if you are stopping a ride then you are going inside and therefore get some relief from being out in the cold, so points are awarded accordingly. 30 mins in the cold is a lot tougher than a 5 min sleaze ride (although I fully concede it’s not the same with kids or heavy cargo, etc.)

@hozn 134583 wrote:

Also for the sake of API economy we use a location name if we can — e.g. “Vienna, VA” — rater than lat/lon. Though it appears that wunderground often just resolves these to DCA, whereas we would get more granular data, but no reuse, if we always used lat/lon.

Maybe that explains the snowiest ride thing. DCA under measured Snowzilla, apparently.

[jrenaut]

@vvill 134586 wrote:

There is a pause button… or we could double points for #kidical rides. Or whatever.

The concept (as I imagined it) is if you are stopping a ride then you are going inside and therefore get some relief from being out in the cold, so points are awarded accordingly. 30 mins in the cold is a lot tougher than a 5 min sleaze ride (although I fully concede it’s not the same with kids or heavy cargo, etc.)

Ok, that makes sense. You’re right, it’s the uninterrupted cold that really gets into your soul.

[DismalScientist]

@consularrider 134576 wrote:

Well Oh, Steve. I’m #15 on the freeze points list, but #55 on the leaderboard. Yeah, I’m in a generally colder place than ya’ll. I’ve been doing most of my riding during midday.

Perhaps it’s reading the temperature in Celsius.:rolleyes:

[JonRobot]

on the regular leaderboard i’m at 141st place (hooray nearly the middle!), and on the freeze points i’m at 55th place, for a difference of 86 points in the direction of being awesome. that’s what i get for commuting around 8am every day.

[bikeeveryday]

@Steve O 134571 wrote:

I don’t know. -3 points for 200 miles at 50 degrees. Sounds okay: we gotta rein in subby somehow.

I agree, negative points should be awarded when the temperature is over 45F. That isn’t even close to Freezing! No points for you! [imagine Soup Nazi voice]

[TwoWheelsDC]

This system seems more complicated, so it must be better!*

Also, my Freeze Points rank is 107 higher than my regular rank. So I may not always ride, but when I do, it’s during the shittiest weather.

*seriously though, I think this better captures the spirit of the competition and fully endorse its use in the future.

[americancyclo]

@vvill 134553 wrote:

Above 45F you actually get a (small) negative score – I should probably change this to just be 0.

@bikeeveryday 134623 wrote:

I agree, negative points should be awarded when the temperature is over 45F. That isn’t even close to Freezing! No points for you! [imagine Soup Nazi voice]

So with this scheme it’s better to not ride at all if it’s over 45 degrees out, rather than incur negative points?

[wheelswings]

Firstly, I’m good with any additional metrics…it is fun to see the data. This is my first winter with an iphone and thus electronically-recorded Strava information. It is totally cool.

Second, like some other commenters, I’m wary about the quality of the temperature/weather data coming from National Airport. Their conditions do not always seem to reflect my experience on the roads and trails.

Third, like some others, I sense that the new metric does not really capture my riding habits so well. For example often I leave work when it’s light out and then detour for groceries and an eldercare stint on my way home. Then I return through the woods late at night. When I left work it was pretty nice out, but when I return home it’s not.

Fourth, I agree that we want to reward hard-core winter riding, but I think we also want to encourage sensible, year-round riding for everyone. It’s an incredible way of life, not just a crazy-fun wintertime game. One way to ride smart in winter is to push the commuting times to take advantage of the warmer or lighter parts of the day. This is not always possible, as we all face a range of work/family scheduling responsibilities. But I don’t think we should penalize these more common-sense choices….especially for those of us for whom goofing off is a rare luxury.

Fifth, just to emphasize, I am delighted with any and all new metrics or bits of information. I feel really spoiled by hozn and others who invented such a data-rich system for Freezing Saddles. And – not insignificantly – my children enjoy the FS site too. They’ve learned all our funny team names and ask me questions like, “What ever happened to 8 Ballin’?” They’re always checking the charts of elevation, distance, and other variables. A huge thank-you for all this awesome data!

[bikeeveryday]

@americancyclo 134627 wrote:

So with this scheme it’s better to not ride at all if it’s over 45 degrees out, rather than incur negative points?

Perhaps there could also be a metric for the number of rides incurring negative points, which could be called the “Fair Weather Rider” category. You still get your mileage number, but reduced by the temperature variable. Thus, if you ride 100 miles in 50F weather, you only get 90 points (or something like that)…

[bikeeveryday]

@TwoWheelsDC 134624 wrote:

This system seems more complicated, so it must be better!*

Also, my Freeze Points rank is 107 higher than my regular rank. So I may not always ride, but when I do, it’s during the shittiest weather.

*seriously though, I think this better captures the spirit of the competition and fully endorse its use in the future.

My regular point rank is 25, while my freeze point rank is 17. Not sure what that means, but in the scheme of things shows some consistency on my part…

[Tania]

@wheels&wings 134628 wrote:

And – not insignificantly – my children enjoy the FS site too. They’ve learned all our funny team names and ask me questions like, “What ever happened to 8 Ballin’?”

Tell them to fret not, we are plotting a roaring return to the top.

[Tania]

I don’t know whether to love these freeze points (they put me ahead of KayakCyndi! 😮 ) or hate them (my rides are usually either sleaze rides or between 13-50 miles; I rarely hit the sweet spot).

When I checked rank this am I was 61 to 64 or something like that so not much different there for me.

[Vicegrip]

Looks fun but I would like to see better accuracy if it is used in the points system. The weather data used and my Garmin don’t even come close to agreement. I think where I start my 6 am ride is counted as DCA which is way warmer than where I start per the Garmin and the outdoor thermometer. I guess there is no way to use the Garmin data if it is present and default to the weather service if not.

Seems Hozn and I are right next to each other in the freeze points and we ride some of the same trail at a slight time shift.

[eminva]

@hozn 134583 wrote:

Also for the sake of API economy we use a location name if we can — e.g. “Vienna, VA” — rater than lat/lon. Though it appears that wunderground often just resolves these to DCA, whereas we would get more granular data, but no reuse, if we always used lat/lon.

Yep, this was my problem last year, and I assume this year — I can get no traction on the “Coldest Ride” leaderboard. I live in Vienna, where my thermometer tells me it can get quite cold, but last year hozn confirmed my data defaults to DCA. I seem to be similarly mired in mediocrity on the Freeze Points chart.

But more data is always fun, even if it has its limitations. Thanks vvill.

Liz

[vvill]

Glad to hear people are enjoying it! I remember reading some discussion about using weather data in a calculation and I wanted to try something out.

@Amalitza 134579 wrote:

I am currently 94th (leaderboard points) and 155th (freeze points), for a difference of 61 places, in the non-badass (ie, sensible bike rider) direction.

@wheels&wings 134628 wrote:

Third, like some others, I sense that the new metric does not really capture my riding habits so well. For example often I leave work when it’s light out and then detour for groceries and an eldercare stint on my way home. Then I return through the woods late at night. When I left work it was pretty nice out, but when I return home it’s not.

Fourth, I agree that we want to reward hard-core winter riding, but I think we also want to encourage sensible, year-round riding for everyone. It’s an incredible way of life, not just a crazy-fun wintertime game. One way to ride smart in winter is to push the commuting times to take advantage of the warmer or lighter parts of the day. This is not always possible, as we all face a range of work/family scheduling responsibilities. But I don’t think we should penalize these more common-sense choices….especially for those of us for whom goofing off is a rare luxury.

Ha, I’m also more of a sensible bike rider (my rank went down). I tend to avoid very cold (and/or dark) riding times if I can, and rain as well (snow is an exception). I agree we don’t want to penalize people – the metric isn’t really meant to capture everyone’s riding habits, I see it more as a test case/prototype that is highlighting riders that are consistently riding in freezing and sub-freezing temperatures.

I don’t think there is any push to switch the scoring system, especially without better temperature data. It’s just for fun, and to maybe give some ideas as to what can be done with our data. And nothing would happen unless there’s a consensus anyway – the system we adopted from the National Bike Challenge is simple to understand and can be used even without GPS tracking.

@Vicegrip 134644 wrote:

I would like to see better accuracy if it is used in the points system.

Agreed. And I think it may be possible to pull a ride temperature number from Strava, but it’s usually even worse in my experience. One of my Garmins consistently records 5-12F higher than it should, and they’re notoriously slow at adjusting to changes (e.g. from going inside to outside) At least with the weather API everyone is using the same “ugh… DCA” data.

At this point, maybe a version of this could be made that’s actually more extreme with greater negative points, precipitation, elevation, etc. since we don’t have very good resolution with our weather data. (Elevation data is similarly tricky – good enough for charts and side prizes but between using topo data, and everyone’s varying barometric sensors, I wouldn’t put too much trust into it.)

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