Found Connection

[GovernorSilver]

@lordofthemark 125265 wrote:

It is illegal to ride a bike on the sidewalk on King Street between West Street and the waterfront (most of the old town part of King) and on Union Street between Prince and Cameron.

Those sidewalks are not particularly desirable to ride on anyway. Most of my old town sidewalk riding is along Washington St, while I look for the right opportunity to get onto the road during rush hour.

Found the link to the city’s code of ordinances via that website you posted. Thanks!

http://alexandriava.gov/CityCode

[lordofthemark]

@GovernorSilver 125267 wrote:

I’ll probably take your advice for north of the Potomac Ave + Glebe Rd. intersection. While I haven’t had any close calls or other issues myself, I’ve noticed that some drivers tend to block the MUP while waiting to turn onto Potomac Ave. The road that cuts through the middle of Potomac Yards to connect Rt. 1 to the movie theater is a particular problem. There’s no curb ramp to the road from where I get onto Potomac Ave. Trail (the switchback connecting to Four Mile Run Trail), but I can just ride to the first driveway and get on the road from there.

South of that intersection is fine because the MUP doesn’t intersect with any driveways/roads. The worst I have to deal with is a careless pedestrian or two – usually around the basketball courts.

This is why the City considers locations like this suitable for MUPs. When the north end of PY is developed, this will enable a low stress route all the way from Old Town to Four Mile Run. But for now continuing north means making that problematic crossing at Glebe. For those willing to cross very carefully, perhaps even dismounting, that may be acceptable. For people moving through the intersection faster, it is certainly safer to be in the lane where one is more visible.

[lordofthemark]

@GovernorSilver 125268 wrote:

Those sidewalks are not particularly desirable to ride on anyway. Most of my old town sidewalk riding is along Washington St, while I look for the right opportunity to get onto the road during rush hour.

Found the link to the city’s code of ordinances via that website you posted. Thanks!

http://alexandriava.gov/CityCode

Most of my sidewalk riding in Alexandria is on fast highly trafficed arterials in West Alexandria – I don’t prefer side walk riding anywhere in Old Town. In particular I use the sidewalk to get from Park Center Drive into North Fairlington at 30 street – even were I willing to take the lane and make a vehicular left on King, that is not possible because a median prevents all left turns there. The nearest alternative not involving sidewalks would be to make a vehicular left onto King (from Park Center) to 29th, which is longer and hillier. At least one Alexandria policeman thinks that is the best option “you are riding for exercise, right?”

[consularrider]

@lordofthemark 125275 wrote:

This is why the City considers locations like this suitable for MUPs. When the north end of PY is developed, this will enable a low stress route all the way from Old Town to Four Mile Run. But for now continuing north means making that problematic crossing at Glebe. For those willing to cross very carefully, perhaps even dismounting, that may be acceptable. For people moving through the intersection faster, it is certainly safer to be in the lane where one is more visible.

I won’t use the west side “MUP” along Potomac Ave between East Glebe and South Glebe Rds. The driveway crossings at the shopping center are very dangerous and why should I have to wait for a light at E. Glebe to just recross the road at S. Glebe. Much faster to just take the lane on that stretch.

[lordofthemark]

@consularrider 125278 wrote:

I won’t use the west side “MUP” along Potomac Ave between East Glebe and South Glebe Rds. The driveway crossings at the shopping center are very dangerous and why should I have to wait for a light at E. Glebe to just recross the road at S. Glebe. Much faster to just take the lane on that stretch.

I agree. An intermediate approach is to use the general travel lanes north of E. Glebe, and the MUP south, but then great care must be exercised in the transition between road and MUP (as in other similar transitions) I admit I have only biked in this area on a weekday once, and do not know what traffic conditions are usually like. When traffic is very light, taking the lanes is less stressful, and dealing with East Glebe from the MUP is easier.

[GovernorSilver]

@lordofthemark 125287 wrote:

I agree. An intermediate approach is to use the general travel lanes north of E. Glebe, and the MUP south, but then great care must be exercised in the transition between road and MUP (as in other similar transitions)

That’s what I need to figure out too. The flipside of no intersecting driveways or roads on the south side of the MUP is the entry points to the MUP being less obvious. There are curb ramps along the length of the MUP but I have to take better note of where they are, while keeping in mind that there is a cement divider in the middle of Potomac Ave, and so I must also note where the breaks in the divider are.

Traffic during rush hour is quite a bit lighter than on Rt. 1, but the street isn’t that quiet either. Heaviest traffic, relatively speaking, is on the north side of “that” intersection. At worst I may have to ride it in part like I do going downhill on Louisiana – take the left lane ASAP, and ride to the left of that lane so I can be in position to turn left on First while allowing cars to pass on my right.

[creadinger]

@lordofthemark 125287 wrote:

I agree. An intermediate approach is to use the general travel lanes north of E. Glebe, and the MUP south, but then great care must be exercised in the transition between road and MUP (as in other similar transitions) I admit I have only biked in this area on a weekday once, and do not know what traffic conditions are usually like. When traffic is very light, taking the lanes is less stressful, and dealing with East Glebe from the MUP is easier.

My justification for taking the road south of E. Glebe is that huge playground. I’d rather deal with some cars than mix it up with a horde of kids playing and generally not paying attention (nor should they have to) to the fact that cyclists are nearby. Besides, who puts a MUP right next to a giant playground? On weekends I’ve seen it PACKED with kids and adults and strollers, so in my opinion it’s best to just avoid all of that and stay on the street.

If you’re wanting to continue on the MUP to Braddock, there are other places to get on it farther south.

On second thought, alongside a MUP seems like the perfect place to put a big playground… except if people expect that MUP to be used by bike commuters who want to get from A to B and not dawdle along the way, or deal with random, unpredictable obstacles. Hence why Gravelly point is such a freaking mess on nice days, and the TJ memorial area sucks during the cherry blossoms.

[Terpfan]

When I go this way (usually wintertime when NPS refuses to plow the MVT yet finds time to plow near every monument), I tend to just take the road. Speeding is an issue back there, but they do enough speed trap enforcement that it’s tampered down quite a bit. The bigger issue to worry about when taking the road is being doored by those townhouses. I had an angry mom yelling at me one day because she thought I somehow infringed on her right to open the door without looking. Thankfully I ride outside the dooring zone so she missed me by a few inches.

The other problem in that area is the horrible transition from the Rt 1 bridge over the train tracks. If you want to stay on sidewalk/MUP, you have to almost come to a complete stop because of the way they situated the crosswalk and then random utility box. Easier to transition from Del Ray area to there if going that way.

I hope the cyclist is alright. Did the driver stick around?

[lordofthemark]

@creadinger 125291 wrote:

My justification for taking the road south of E. Glebe is that huge playground. I’d rather deal with some cars than mix it up with a horde of kids playing and generally not paying attention (nor should they have to) to the fact that cyclists are nearby. Besides, who puts a MUP right next to a giant playground? On weekends I’ve seen it PACKED with kids and adults and strollers, so in my opinion it’s best to just avoid all of that and stay on the street.

If you’re wanting to continue on the MUP to Braddock, there are other places to get on it farther south.

On second thought, alongside a MUP seems like the perfect place to put a big playground… except if people expect that MUP to be used by bike commuters who want to get from A to B and not dawdle along the way, or deal with random, unpredictable obstacles. Hence why Gravelly point is such a freaking mess on nice days, and the TJ memorial area sucks during the cherry blossoms.

The shame is that the presence of the path not far to the east of the MUP could actually provide separation between meandering pedestrians on the one hand, and the joggers and lower confidence cyclists on the other. But yeah, there several places on the MUP where conflict is likely, especially on nice days.

[GovernorSilver]

@Terpfan 125293 wrote:

The other problem in that area is the horrible transition from the Rt 1 bridge over the train tracks. If you want to stay on sidewalk/MUP, you have to almost come to a complete stop because of the way they situated the crosswalk and then random utility box. Easier to transition from Del Ray area to there if going that way.

I hope the cyclist is alright. Did the driver stick around?

I tried the Potomac Ave -> Rt1 sidewalk -> Slater Lane route once. Once was enough. Just didn’t make as much sense to me as continuing down the MUP all the way to Braddock. I don’t mind passing the playground and basketball courts on the MUP. Foot traffic on the MUP on weekday evenings is bearable enough for me. I’m usually tired after the sprints and other action going down Louisiana, and later 15th St/Raoul Wallenberger, followed by that climb up to 14th St. Bridge. So by the time I’m riding along Potomac Ave, I just don’t feel like pedaling hard/fast and I want a break from sharing roads with cars, because I have do it again later before I finally get home. I’ve only ridden it once on a weekend – that particular Sunday happened to be overcast, yet humid, so hardly anybody was out and about.

There was a single, unoccupied, car parked on the right lane of southbound Potomac Ave. next to “that” intersection. I didn’t witness the accident, but my guess is that was the car? I’m guessing the driver was one of the people surrounding the fallen cyclist.

[dasgeh]

@Emm 125241 wrote:

Another cyclist there claimed that in Virginia it is ALWAYS illegal to go in a crosswalk while riding your bike, and he said she was for sure going to get a ticket. Is this accurate? I told him I didn’t think so, but he swore up and down he knew the law and was 100% sure bikes cannot be ridden across crosswalks in Virginia, they must be walked across.

We had EXACTLY THIS DISCUSSION with the COMMONWEALTH’S ATTORNEY at the Arlington BAC in July, because a representative of ACPD thought bikes in crosswalks would be vehicles (that makes no sense). It’s legal to ride in a crosswalk, and when doing so, you’re considered a pedestrian.

[mstone]

This is a belief that’s common among people of a certain age who grew up learning that bikes have to be walked across intersections. There is no amount of reality check that will change that attitude. I’d like to think that the belief will die out with that generation, but some have passed it on to their children. I cry a little inside when I see a family whose parents make them all dismount and scurry across the street.

[mikoglaces]

@dasgeh 125305 wrote:

We had EXACTLY THIS DISCUSSION with the COMMONWEALTH’S ATTORNEY at the Arlington BAC in July, because a representative of ACPD thought bikes in crosswalks would be vehicles (that makes no sense). It’s legal to ride in a crosswalk, and when doing so, you’re considered a pedestrian.

I got a ticket for not coming to a full stop on the W&OD where it crossed a road in Loudon County. I beat it in court (because the W&OD is not a road, and so the “intersection” is not an intersection, and i couldn’t be charged with failing to stop at an “intersection”). Anyway, when I cross-examined the deputy sheriff, he testified that a cyclist has to dismount in a crosswalk. He didn’t know where it said that, but he knew it.

Of course it’s nonsensical. If cyclists did dismount and walk where the W&OD crosses roads, motorists would not be pleased as it would just take cyclists longer to cross.

[Drewdane]

You: the One person on the WOD yesterday evening who actually called their pass (out of well over a dozen that passed me): Thanks!

[GovernorSilver]

Riding north on the First St NE protected lane, i signaled left.

You stopped your van to let me turn in front of you.

Thanks!

[Author]

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