Existential Thread: Or What is Freezing Saddles Really All About

[Rod Smith]

OK cap at 250. Suggestions, members of the winning team and anyone who rode every day the year before gets a spot. People who aren’t riding get axed. People who rode less than 30 days get to sit a year out unless they bring a note from doctor? The rest first come, first served?

See you later if it becomes a contest for instagram happy coffee hour club. I have no interest in that.

[americancyclo]

@hozn 135549 wrote:

Perhaps we could start by kicking out those damn elitists…

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kJHUres_2xU#t=260

[Vicegrip]

I did not play during the first season but did watch on the site. From my viewing angle F.S year one sure looked like a fun winter riding competition to me. Playing F.S. pushed me out of my comfort zone into the fun zone which is just the thing. Now my less than perfect weather cycling and gear planning is well past anything I though was doable. I used to think 50 deg was cold. Now 50 deg is “improved cooling for more power” weather. Nothing quite like getting the personal gear selection just right for the ride in and having the right gear on or in the pack for the ride home too. Goldilocks rides are a joy. Joy comes from knowing that it is not always going to go right. The experience of the standard stuff of cycle commuting like forgetting socks or cold fingers fumbling through a flat at 6 am make the good rides better. I think this goes for long distance seemingly thermonuclear powered riders to short hops on a Cabi. Points to ride could be considered an added reason rather than pressure. I guess it depends on how you look at it. Having someone I am trying to catch up to or stay in front of is fun.
My buddies race cars and I still play cars with them now and then. They spend cubic money and time away from home and family to have their fun on a few weekends a year. just like bikes it does not always go well which again makes the good times better. with cycling I have some fun 2X a day, save bucks, get to eat and drink like a king and still be more fit than I was 20 years ago.

Keep it simple for the foundation portion of the game. Simple systems with clear simple rules that work are almost always the most robust. It seem like 250 is a number limit that comes up based on the constraints of the web based portions of the game in free mode but the actual number should be based on the system and social constraints of a free volunteer based activity. Reg opens up on X day first XXX are on teams, XX more after the first XXX are offered a place on a wait list. When someone wants out or fails to appear a person from the wait list is called up.

[vvill]

So this is what happens when Steve O replies to his own reply in his own thread.

Seriously though, it doesn’t sound like there’s much positive response in a points system based on “social” challenges, etc. I think the basic system we have works pretty well – to effect positive changes I think it’s better to start identifying real concerns that organizers/participants have rather than proposing sweeping alternatives straight away. Some things I’ve seen come up include (in a rough order of “importance”):

– API/software limitations
– total number of players
– team sizes/number of teams, team assignments
– substitutions for players who don’t end up riding (whether it’s injury, loss of interest, etc.)
– auxiliary scoring systems

If you want to gauge the success of FS, it’s probably best to talk to new players and see if they had similar experiences to the veterans’ previous experiences. Did you go ride more than before? Did you want to? Does winter riding seem easier now? More fun? Do you go riding out in the snow for fun? Did seeing other riders out there inspire you? Did seeing the scores/data motivate you? etc. I can’t speak for other teams but I’ve been very impressed by my team’s FS “newbies” and I think they’ve been experiencing the competition similarly to how I did in my first year.

As for the OT, I don’t think it’s reasonable to expect 200 players to all know each other, nor for every player to decide they like Freezing Saddles enough to want to join in the social aspects, especially if they’ve just signed up for the first time. Each season I typically know a bunch of folks already, and meet some more, but I wouldn’t expect to meet everyone in the competition, or even in my team.

@TwoWheelsDC 135490 wrote:

Frankly, I think the slacker thing is a non-issue. There are people on every team (including me!) who don’t end up riding much, and it seems to balance out fine. As long at the top 30% of riders are evenly distributed, I think the rest of the riders probably aren’t having too much of an influence on overall team rankings.

Depends on how you define “too much of an influence”. A few weeks ago I investigated how team rankings change with teams capped at a certain number of riders. My team is top 6 until you get to 10+ players (we’re 12th overall), although it’s perhaps an extreme case. I think the frustration of Steve C comes from not being able to have any effect on your team standings because you’re so far behind, and although I tend to agree with folks who say “this is just what happens in a competition with 20 teams”, I do think this is something that can be addressed since we do the team assignments, and there are clearly different levels of “competing” riders out there. But changing that up with tiers of competition seems a little unpopular.

[Tania]

@vvill 135572 wrote:

If you want to gauge the success of FS, it’s probably best to talk to new players and see if they had similar experiences to the veterans’ previous experiences. Did you go ride more than before? Did you want to? Does winter riding seem easier now? More fun? Do you go riding out in the snow for fun? Did seeing other riders out there inspire you? Did seeing the scores/data motivate you? etc. I can’t speak for other teams but I’ve been very impressed by my team’s FS “newbies” and I think they’ve been experiencing the competition similarly to how I did in my first year.

Did you go ride more than before? YES. 740 YTD vs maybe 100 same time frame last year (that’s a guess, but last year was mostly coffee rides)

Did you want to? YES!

Does winter riding seem easier now? …No. It’s not the cold it’s the ice. But that’s my own mental issues, and now I do have studded tires. So easier, nope. But I’m more likely to suck it up and try.

Do you go riding out in the snow for fun? YES! I even bought a mid-fat bike. And a dedicated commuter.

Did seeing the scores/data motivate you? Oh yeah.

Editing to add that I likely wouldn’t bother to do FS again if it was based more on any kind of ‘-neuring’ format, the rules for which make my eyes glaze over mid-way through the second ridiculous rule. I’m here to ride, not attend happy hours or take pictures.

[Anonymous]

@vvill 135572 wrote:

Seriously though, it doesn’t sound like there’s much positive response in a points system based on “social” challenges, etc.

I mean, I get his intent, but I can’t even imagine how to implement it logistically. What we do now is not very complex (I don’t think), but simply getting everyone playing to do all the steps necessary for the leaderboard to *automatically track our points for us* is not a trivial thing.

[accordioneur]

Another newbie here. Having grown up in an urban environment, cycling has always been a part of my life, primarily as transportation and casual leisure. When I recently decided to focus a little more on riding for fitness/recreation I was surprised to discover that, around here at least, riding a bicycle is a complex and exclusive endeavor requiring elaborate outfits, a near full-time obsession with gear, and with a high bar in terms of minimum capabilities. I decided to participate in FS for two reasons: (1) to motivate myself to keep up bike commuting through the winter, and (2) as a way into the cycling community. I figured that the common bond of being out there in the freezing cold would overcome the social barrier of my not being a Serious Cyclist. I have found that participation has exceeded my expectations on both counts. My days ridden in the winter have gone from ZERO in past years to 32 (so far). I cannot think of any previous year when I would have biked to work the morning after a snowstorm. I have enjoyed participating in AM coffees. And it has gotten me to do some fun, kooky things – like 1.01 miles of laps in the dark around an industrial park in Mississippi on a borrowed cruiser bike. In addition, FS has been my introduction into the forums and has occasionally provided me with bragging rights when talking to Serious Cyclists who are not winter riders. I am really enjoying participating.

Did you go ride more than before? Yes

Did you want to? Yes

Does winter riding seem easier now? Yes

More fun? Yes

Do you go riding out in the snow for fun? Yes

Did seeing other riders out there inspire you? Yes

Did seeing the scores/data motivate you? Yes

[accordioneur]

I forgot to mention that in part because of my recent enthusiasm for cycling my wife, who hasn’t ridden in many, many years, just purchased a bike!

[LeprosyStudyGroup]

@Tania 135575 wrote:

Did you go ride more than before? YES. 740 YTD vs maybe 100 same time frame last year (that’s a guess, but last year was mostly coffee rides)

Did you want to? YES!

Does winter riding seem easier now? …No. It’s not the cold it’s the ice. But that’s my own mental issues, and now I do have studded tires. So easier, nope. But I’m more likely to suck it up and try.

Do you go riding out in the snow for fun? YES! I even bought a mid-fat bike. And a dedicated commuter.

Did seeing the scores/data motivate you? Oh yeah.

Editing to add that I likely wouldn’t bother to do FS again if it was based more on any kind of ‘-neuring’ format, the rules for which make my eyes glaze over mid-way through the second ridiculous rule. I’m here to ride, not attend happy hours or take pictures.

As another FS newbie, +1 on every single thing Tania says here, except w/o the studs or fatbike! (and my emphasis on rules)
Oh, and btw I also feel the whole concept of sleaze rides to get points is stupid, but I acknowledge there is nothing better to be done about that issue.

Having an enthusiastic and motivating team leader (Like Powerful Pete) is really important, but getting enough people of that personality type is probably next to impossible for more than a few teams, and nobody can be blamed when it doesn’t happen.

[rcannon100]

Really? We are deciding the rules to 2017 FS when we havent finished 2016? Really?

You can make up any rules you like. The reality is that the game is controlled more than anything by those who volunteer to do the work.

[LeprosyStudyGroup]

You seem to be missing the point of the discussion and then reacting negatively to where you end up, time to hit the showers breh.

[rcannon100]

@LeprosyStudyGroup 135629 wrote:

You seem to be missing the point of the discussion and then reacting negatively to where you end up, time to hit the showers breh.

Oh I miss the point of just about every discussion I am in. I’m a lawyer.

[americancyclo]

@LeprosyStudyGroup 135629 wrote:

You seem to be missing the point of the discussion and then reacting negatively to where you end up, time to hit the showers breh.

he does kinda know from what he speaks:
BAFS 2013
@rcannon100 37178 wrote:

Freezing Saddles: Winter Bike Challenge
Never Give an ELITE Cyclist an Even Break

Official Frozen Scoreboard

NOTE: Excluded activities: If you post an activity to Strava during the competition period which is not an outdoor bike ride, then it should have the string “#NoBAFS” in the activity name.

Freezing Saddles! The Epic Adventure of a band of ELITE Cyclists, facing the challenges of the wild wild wild bike paths. Confronting the darkest of evenings, the coldest of mornings, and the stupidest of Ninjas – these brave cyclists challenge each other because, if they didnt, they might have to actually do some work during the day.

The saga runs January 1 until the last day of Winter, March 20. It will conclude with a March Madness Playoff that someone will probably design. There will be a Happy Hour at the end with many pointless trophies.

Tribes (teams):
· Composed of ~5 riders or less
· For riders from the #bikedc, Washington DC Bike Forum general community (Washington DC greater metropolitan area)
· Volunteer Captains (captains will address any data problems, negotiate or cause confusion, and provide motivational seminars);
· This is a ten-gallon hat tournament. Riders will be randomly assigned to tribes based on self declared average weekly mileage and days cycled. Tribes will be created so that each tribes’s average weekly point score is roughly equal to everyone else’s. To achieve this, tribes may be composed of differing numbers of riders.
· No late sign ups.
· Interested cyclists must sign up by December 25 Midnight – Tribes will be announced within a couple days.

Scoring: Riders will receive 10 points for each day and 1 point for each mile ridden. Minimum ride is 1 mile. The tribe’s score will be the sum of the tribe members (indoor trainers do not count- you must be freezing in the saddle outside).

Backend: STRAVA (please sign up for an account, and join the “Bike Arlington” club on STRAVA – you should be able to enter data manually or automatically. Additional information will be posted here on the forum.)

This is a self organized group activity based on consensus. No one is in charge or running this thing. Participation is voluntary and entirely at your own risk.

[IMG]file:///c:TEMP1msohtmlclip11clip_image001.jpg[/IMG]

BAFS 2014
@rcannon100 71439 wrote:

Consensus:

Freezing Saddles: Winter Bike Challenge
Never Give an ELITE Cyclist an Even Break

Freezing Saddles! The Epic Adventure of a band of ELITE Cyclists, facing the challenges of the wild wild winter bike paths. Confronting the darkest of evenings, the coldest of mornings, and the stupidest of Ninjas – these brave cyclists challenge each other because, if they didnt, they might have to actually do some work during the day.

The saga runs January 1 until the last day of Winter, March 19. There will be a Happy Hour at the end with many pointless trophies.

* Tribes (teams):
** Composed of ~8 riders or less
** For riders from the WABA / Bike Arlington forum
** Volunteer Captains (captains will address any data problems, negotiate or cause confusion, and provide motivational seminars);
* This is a ten-gallon hat tournament. Riders will be randomly assigned to tribes based on self declared average weekly mileage and days cycled. Tribes will be created so that each tribes’s average weekly point score is roughly equal to everyone else’s. To achieve this, tribes may be composed of differing numbers of riders.
* No late sign ups (this year absolute – I have other things that I will have to be attending to).
* Interested cyclists must sign up by December 24 Midnight – Tribes will be announced within a couple days.
* All rides must be logged by DATE in order to be included
* No sandbagging.
* Communications will be through the forum.

Scoring: Riders will receive 10 points for each day and 1 point for each mile ridden. Minimum ride is 1 mile. The tribe’s score will be the sum of the tribe members (indoor trainers do not count- you must be freezing in the saddle outside).

La Strava
* We will honor the “trainer” checkbox in Strava; those rides will be ignored. As will rides with #NoBAFS (case-insensitive) in the ride name.
* Any rides with kiddos on your bike can be tagged in the ride name with #Kidical for a kidically pointless prize.
* In order for rides to be counted, the athletes will need to authorize the Freezing Saddles application to read their Strava data. (Details coming very soon on how to do that.)
* Also, riders will need to be a member of their “tribe” Strava club in order for their rides to count (we’ll only be showing riders that are on one of the competition teams) — and I will need the list of those team IDs for configuring the scoreboard. Of course any recorded rides will be counted retroactively if any of the team captains are late in getting the clubs formed (or late in getting me the ID of the clubs … or I’m late in updating the app configuration).

Freezing Saddles is a self organized effort of the participants. Freezing Saddles is not sponsored by anyone (it is not sponsored by Bike Arlington or by WABA). There is no organization. It is just a bunch of people coming together to be silly and ride bikes when it is really really cold. Your participation in Freezing Saddles is voluntary and at your own risk and you have not paid anyone anything to participate. Please volunteer to help make this self organized effort succeed.

BAFS 2015
@rcannon100 101029 wrote:

Freezing Saddles 2015 Registration

Please keep in mind that this is a game of the forum, by the forum, and for the forum. The whole point is a bunch of friends coming together to goof off. We hope that people will join in the reindeer games, come to happy hours, participate and even organize pointless prizes and side bets, and join in group rides.

Take care inviting weirdos to join. If you dont think the weirdo is going to join in the forum, or come to a happy hour, or join a group ride – maybe dont invite them. If on the other hand the weirdo likes reindeer games, and is interested in adopting a puppy, maybe they are perfect. Every year new people assimilate into our community during FS. But there are also those who sign up, never show up, never play – and we then have to deal with how to fix our game.

Registration goes through December 24th. People who buy me pie at FCCII will be put on a good team. The rest of you will be put on Steve O’s team.

Storing this somewhere where people can see it

@rcannon100 135633 wrote:

Oh I miss the point of just about every discussion I am in. I’m a lawyer.

also true.

[rcannon100]

@americancyclo 135645 wrote:

he does kinda know from what he speaks:

[lordofthemark]

I think we could improve Freezing Saddles if we stopped giving points for posting GIFs.

[Author]

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