Dang electric motorcycles

[jabberwocky]

No, motorized vehicles technically aren’t allowed at all.

[hozn]

@NickBull 108526 wrote:

he was riding at about 20mph and passed me without warning on a blind corner riding up Rosslyn Hill on the Custis Trail.

This could describe any number of people on non-electric bicycles. (Electric motorcycles are something else.) Would the situation be any different if the person was pedaling? Probably the e-bike would be safer than an oxygen-starved KOM pathlete.

But I think you are focusing on the wrong aspect of the problem here.

[rcannon100]

@NickBull 108526 wrote:

What I mean by an electric motorcycle is one of these things that looks like a bicycle but is powered by an electric motor that is powerful enough to push a rider uphill at 20mph whether they are pedaling or not.

Doesnt sound like a motorcycle to me.

[kwarkentien]

I’ve been told that e-bikes are legal on bike trails but there may be a speed max.

[jabberwocky]

@kwarkentien 108585 wrote:

I’ve been told that e-bikes are legal on bike trails but there may be a speed max.

I think thats the case for general transportation infrastructure (e-bikes are basically considered bikes if they have less than a certain amount of power, and motorcycles if they have more than that). But I’m pretty sure the area MUPs flat out say “no motorized vehicles” without any exemption carved out for e-bikes.

There have been several e-bike threads on the forum where this has been discussed. We also have several folks here who commute on them. The rules are one thing, but I’d agree you’re focusing on the wrong thing here (the bike, rather than the dickwaffle riding it).

[dasgeh]

@jabberwocky 108598 wrote:

I think thats the case for general transportation infrastructure (e-bikes are basically considered bikes if they have less than a certain amount of power, and motorcycles if they have more than that). But I’m pretty sure the area MUPs flat out say “no motorized vehicles” without any exemption carved out for e-bikes.

There’s a federal law that defines a certain type of e-bike (motor only helps to 20mph). Those are generally excluded from the definition of motorized vehicles in the state/local laws around here. Many of the trails don’t have clear rules, or if they do, they predate the federal law, and the signs aren’t clear as to what they mean by “motorized vehicle”, though the natural reading would be whatever state/local law says. In other words, it seems like e-bikes are allowed on trails, but it’s not clear.

Looking at Strava, plenty of people ride uphill on the Custis faster than 15mph. It doesn’t matter what kind of bike you’re on – dangerous behavior is the issue.

[NickBull]

@hozn 108548 wrote:

This could describe any number of people on non-electric bicycles. (Electric motorcycles are something else.) Would the situation be any different if the person was pedaling? Probably the e-bike would be safer than an oxygen-starved KOM pathlete.

But I think you are focusing on the wrong aspect of the problem here.

So far in twenty-five years of riding up Rosslyn Hill, I’ve never been passed by anyone going that fast.

[NickBull]

@rcannon100 108551 wrote:

Doesnt sound like a motorcycle to me.

Does it have a motor? Yes. Therefore it is a motorcycle.

[hozn]

@NickBull 108604 wrote:

So far in twenty-five years of riding up Rosslyn Hill, I’ve never been passed by anyone going that fast.

Well, take a look at the leaderboard for that segment.

[NickBull]

@dasgeh 108601 wrote:

There’s a federal law that defines a certain type of e-bike (motor only helps to 20mph). Those are generally excluded from the definition of motorized vehicles in the state/local laws around here. Many of the trails don’t have clear rules, or if they do, they predate the federal law, and the signs aren’t clear as to what they mean by “motorized vehicle”, though the natural reading would be whatever state/local law says. In other words, it seems like e-bikes are allowed on trails, but it’s not clear.

Looking at Strava, plenty of people ride uphill on the Custis faster than 15mph. It doesn’t matter what kind of bike you’re on – dangerous behavior is the issue.

There seem to be three groups of people who “can’t slow down” on the path: Electric motorcycle riders — maybe they’re scared that if they throttle down they won’t be able to get back up to speed and they know they’re too weak to do it otherwise; Fixie riders — they know how painful it’s going to be to lose speed so they’re willing to risk other people’s lives to avoid a bit of pain; and the occasional fast-charging wannabe racer. All three groups are problems–all three groups have passed me and others on blind corners. If one group can be eliminated then all the better. If electric motorcycles are limited to not having enough power to pass dangerously like this (uphill at high speed), then it’s a step in the right direction. But my observation is that no such limits are enforced.

Part of the problem is that while society thinks that it is worth enforcing laws on the public roads, for some reason there is no law enforcement on the public paths, and in fact may not even be any laws. For instance, is it against any law for a cyclist to swerve around a downed-tree into the other lane and into the path of an oncoming bicyclist? Someone did exactly that to my friend, who broke his pelvis as a result. On the road, there would have been a police presence and charges for a traffic violation. On the path, the idiot who swerved into my friend just hangs around for a few minutes (at least he did that!) and then rides away with no consequence.

Nick

[Crickey7]

It’s true, order on the trails relies almost entirely on self-policing. It has its drawbacks–bridge work on the CCT forced posting of a sign directing people to take turns using the narrowed crossing, which not a few ignored and caused collisions as a result–but it’s impractical to expect police to really have enough of a presence to act as a deterrrent, nor am I sure that’s the direction I’d like us to be moving.

[rcannon100]

@NickBull 108610 wrote:

There seem to be three groups of people who “can’t slow down” on the path: Electric motorcycle riders — maybe they’re scared that if they throttle down they won’t be able to get back up to speed and they know they’re too weak to do it otherwise; Fixie riders — they know how painful it’s going to be to lose speed so they’re willing to risk other people’s lives to avoid a bit of pain; and the occasional fast-charging wannabe racer.

Simply not true. If the problem is speeding on the trail, address the problem and avoid the attacks on different cycling tribes. I have seen responsible riders in all of the groups above, including many people on this forum.

[dasgeh]

@NickBull 108610 wrote:

There seem to be three groups of people who “can’t slow down” on the path: Electric motorcycle riders — maybe they’re scared that if they throttle down they won’t be able to get back up to speed and they know they’re too weak to do it otherwise; […]

I don’t know where you’re getting this from, but you clearly have no idea what you’re talking about with respect to ebikes. Some people are jerks. Some of those people drive cars, some of them ride bikes and yes, some ride ebikes. But the nature of the ebike in itself actually makes it less likely someone is going to ride like a jerk – it’s easier to get up to speed, so there’s less incentive to preserve speed than with a traditional bike. Also, ebikes make it possible for people who couldn’t bike to be on bikes and by far the thing that makes you safer on a bike is to have more people biking.

You’re right that the laws and enforcement on trails on trails is not at the same level as on roads. The very simple explanation is that far, far more people die on roads, and specifically because of cars. So we spend a lot more of our public energy – writing laws and enforcing them – on roads.

[NickBull]

@hozn 108606 wrote:

Well, take a look at the leaderboard for that segment.

If Strava is maintaining a leaderboard for people riding up Rosslyn Hill, then I would like to sue them pre-emptively for creating a hazardous condition on the bike path. No part of the Custis Trail should have a leaderboard on it; it is too narrow and twisty. If people want to race, they need to find somewhere to do it where the only person they endanger is themselves.

And … just to reply to the dislike from 83(b). Somehow, I just don’t find it particularly bothersome to know that some anonymous person who hasn’t enough courage to use their own name doesn’t like my post

[rcannon100]

@NickBull 108604 wrote:

So far in twenty-five years of riding up Rosslyn Hill, I’ve never been passed by anyone going that fast.

I have. And I have lived here since 89. The fastest person passing me on Custis Hill was an ELITE rider. Been passed by ebikes plenty of times. Usually I just yell, “cheater bike! Cheater bike!”

[Author]

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