Cyclocross all-arounder or N+1 with road bike?

[dkel]

@sethpo 78300 wrote:

(although I think on this forum there’s pretty much interest in anything having two wheels attached).

[ATTACH=CONFIG]4851[/ATTACH]

[ShawnoftheDread]

@sethpo 78206 wrote:

Thanks for all the input, everyone! I was severely tempted by the BD Ultegra option but in the end stuck to my guns that this is a secondary bike so I grabbed one of Nashbar’s sales and got the steel CX w/ 105 group for $630. I still have room in my budget for an extra/upgraded wheel set and tires w/o feeling stretched.

I’ve had my eye on this bike for months and was going to pull the trigger if it ever went below $700. But I bought a different bike a couple of weeks ago. So you’re welcome.

[sethpo]

Bike in a box. Assembly was simple enough. Really easy, actually. The only issue was the front brake cable threaded awkwardly through the other cables. Simple enough to fix. Adjusted the derailleurs and was out the door.

So far, bike seems solid but we’ll need to give it a few more than one mile to dial in the fit and asses the ride. The brakes are definitely going to be replaced. The tektro oryx canti brakes aren’t going to cut it. I’ll work on adjusting them some more but am going to take Hozn’s advice and replace them soon with mini-v.

It’s hard to tell the exact color on Nashbar. It’s a deep gloss red and not orange. There’s not a decal on it and I kind of like the classic tube frame look. It shifts like a dream (which makes me think my road bike which also has 105s needs some work).

Overall, for the price I’m happy so far.

Here’s some pics.

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[hozn]

That looks really nice; thanks for posting the pics! Sorry the cantis are proving to not be great. Toeing them in may help and I know not all cantis are created equal (but at the point where you are buying new brakes I think mini-v is a winner anyway — no fiddling needed). I could never get good stopping power or non-earth-shatteringly-loud squealing.

As Dismal mentioned you could also look into a fork mounted brake stop.

If you do decide to spring for the top-shelf TRP mini-v brakes, I think the CX9 model is what you want, though I am not 100% sure what model numbers / years “newer Shimano” translates to. (I think they changed [increased] cable pull slightly in recent years.) I found those brakes new online for under $100, but obviously that is still a good percentage of the bike cost I haven’t done the research, but suspect the Tektros mini-v are good too?

[TwoWheelsDC]

Flip it. Slam it.

[ShawnoftheDread]

@hozn 78556 wrote:

I haven’t done the research, but suspect the Tektros mini-v are good too?

I have a pair with Kool-stop pads and so far I like them. I have no idea how I’m going to fit fenders under them, though.

[hozn]

@ShawnoftheDread 78564 wrote:

I have a pair with Kool-stop pads and so far I like them. I have no idea how I’m going to fit fenders under them, though.

That is a good point / downside. I didn’t have problems fitting SKS 35mm fenders under the CX9s, but I could see larger fenders posing a challenge. I may have only been running 25mm tires too (vs 28), I don’t recall. Clip-on fenders like Raceblades is probably an option.l if full fenders aren’t a requirement.

[sethpo]

Great stuff! You guys are the best. I was going to punt for awhile on fenders. I have a rear SKS clip-on and I guess I could get a front one as well. They are pretty inexpensive.

As for the mini-v brakes, one concern I have is the length of the existing brake cables. I would really rather not have to re-cable the entire rig. I’ll probably pick up a set of Kool Stops this weekend and see how much difference that makes.

My other potential issue is the gearing. The bike came with an 11-28 cassette and 46/36 front rings. That’s basically one less climbing gear than my road bike has which isn’t an issue on my commute but if I want to load this up and do some bike camping I might want a bit more range (as opposed to, you know, getting myself into better shape). I’m thinking something like a 28/50T front set up and leaving the rear as is. Can I replace the rings w/o changing the entire crank set? How about chain length? Is there some way to know what will be compatible (beyond just bolt count and bcd)?

[vvill]

I’m definitely not a derailleur expert, but 50/28 sounds like too much of a jump to me, 16T is usually the max I think?

Maybe 46/34 or 32 with a 30+T cassette in the back? I think even Ultegra 10 speed comes in a 12-30T (not sure if you need specific RD for that though).

I run fenders above my Tektro mini-Vs on my folding bike. This does cause some issues for the braking performance, but it’s ok since I’m never going that fast on that bike. I’ve never used cantis though so I can’t really compare.

Another option is the Paul CX brakes. Beautiful, but expensive.

[DismalScientist]

Cable length: you probably had to cut the cable during installation. I hope you cut it long, otherwise you may have to replace it when going to mini-v’s. If you opt for a fork mounted cable stop, you will need a long piece of cable housing as well.

On gearing: with the 105s you shouldn’t go bigger than the 11-28 cassette, so, I guess you will have to change the chainrings if you want wider gearing. One issue will be the gear capacity of the rear derailleur. From the pictures, it looks like you have a long cage derailleur, which is good. Do you really want a larger big chainring? After all, the smallest rear cog is an 11. That should be plenty high.

Chainlength: You want the derailleur arm as far forward as possible when you are in the largest chainring and largest rear cog. Since I don’t think you will end up changing either, you are good.

Changing the smaller chain ring: Not only do you need the bolt count to be the same, but also the distance between the bolt. Some function of that distance is expressed as the BCD in mm. I’m sure Sheldon Brown has this in his glossary. Make sure the BCDs of the replacement ring and crank match.

[DismalScientist]

@vvill 78591 wrote:

I’m definitely not a derailleur expert, but 50/28 sounds like too much of a jump to me, 16T is usually the max I think?

Maybe 46/34 or 32 with a 30+T cassette in the back? I think even Ultegra 10 speed comes in a 12-30T (not sure if you need specific RD for that though).

The Shimano website says a 16T max difference in front teeth with a 39 tooth chain capacity for the long cage 105 derailleur. The biggest rear cog in the cassette is claimed to be 28.
My touring bike comes with a 30/39/50 crank and 11-28 cassette with 105s. Obviously that’s a 20 tooth difference up front. I don’t know if it matters if it is on a triple or a double.
You may have problems finding chainrings smaller than 30 on a road crank.

[sethpo]

@DismalScientist 78594 wrote:

Cable length: you probably had to cut the cable during installation. I hope you cut it long, otherwise you may have to replace it when going to mini-v’s. If you opt for a fork mounted cable stop, you will need a long piece of cable housing as well.

On gearing: with the 105s you shouldn’t go bigger than the 11-28 cassette, so, I guess you will have to change the chainrings if you want wider gearing. One issue will be the gear capacity of the rear derailleur. From the pictures, it looks like you have a long cage derailleur, which is good. Do you really want a larger big chainring? After all, the smallest rear cog is an 11. That should be plenty high.

Chainlength: You want the derailleur arm as far forward as possible when you are in the largest chainring and largest rear cog. Since I don’t think you will end up changing either, you are good.

Changing the smaller chain ring: Not only do you need the bolt count to be the same, but also the distance between the bolt. Some function of that distance is expressed as the BCD in mm. I’m sure Sheldon Brown has this in his glossary. Make sure the BCDs of the replacement ring and crank match.

Brakes: I didn’t have to cut the cables. It all came pre-strung and it equipped with a front cable hanger. It doesn’t seem to have a lot of extra length though beyond the top of the cantis which is why I’m worried about it.

Chainrings: Great info, thanks. Yes, you are right that there’s really no reason to go bigger than the 46t so if I can find a 30t small ring with the right BCD and five bolt pattern I should be good…I think.

Thanks again!

[hozn]

FWIW, I am running a 34/46 front ring setup w/ 11-28 on my commuter/cx bike and think it is fantastic. *but* I’m not doing any loaded touring. I’m using Shimano 105 (5700), which handles the 28t cog fine, as others note. That gear range works great for mtb trails, though, and pulling a trailer or weehoo up the Arlington hills, so I have no plans to change it. A 30t front, assuming that’s a thing in 110 bcd, sounds like it would increase your low range significantly, though the downside is you’d probably be in the big (46t) ring and larger cogs most of the time for normal riding and those have larger jumps between cog sizes (if that makes sense). To be fair, I find myself typically in the big ring myself, unless I’m pulling the trailer; lately I have made an effort to use the smaller ring and smaller cogs more when I can since those enable very small cadence adjustments.

I have a lot of cable housing lying around (though likely not cables) if you end up needing a longer run of brake housing – just PM me. Of course redoing the cabling is annoying on a road bike since you’ll need to redo the tape (hopefully it could be reused, but I suppose worst-case you’d have to shell out $10 for new tape too). So definitely try the kool stop pads first; I did that and they did help a little, but my setup was still insufferable. Another thing to consider, depending on the mini-v brake, is you may need an inline barrel adjuster. That may solve the need to install new/longer housing (and tear up the tape), but introduces another little thing to purchase

[DismalScientist]

I don’t think you can get anything smaller than a 33 tooth chainring with 110 BCD.
Since you have interupter levers, replacing the front brake cable housing doesn’t involve unwrapping the bars. You also don’t need an inline adjuster since there should be an adjuster on the interupters.

[vvill]

Yeah I think generally a 28T in the back with a CX front (34/36 46/48) is great, but with real loaded touring I would get a triple (but that’s not very practical given you already have nice new 105 shifters). From what Dismal says, sounds like a wider cassette is the best bet, maybe even a MTB cassette. If you needed a different RD for that at least they’re not particularly expensive as far as bike parts go.

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