crash on the w&od

[ginacico]

@ursus 144828 wrote:

It’s off topic, but reading this post it sounds like Brandymore Castle is still there. I have probably riden on that section of the W&OD a coupole of thousand times (twice today) but have never gotten off the trail. I haven’t read the marker by the trail a decade or two, but I thought that it said it was the former site of BC. Is it actually somewhere in the nearby woods?

If I understand what the sign says, the hill was called Brandymore Castle because it “looks like” a fortress. Not because there was ever an actual structure there.

If you peer uphill at the pile of rocks, it does somewhat resemble the spires of a small castle. I assume that’s what they meant.

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[ursus]

@ginacico 144829 wrote:

If I understand what the sign says, the hill was called Brandymore Castle because it “looks like” a fortress. Not because there was ever an actual structure there.

If you peer uphill at the pile of rocks, it does somewhat resemble the spires of a small castle. I assume that’s what they meant.

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Thanks.

[ginacico]

I’ve had a few memorable, overtly pleasant interactions with other cyclists. But I can count more times when I’ve gotten so irritated that I had to take a timeout in the middle of a commute. A lap around Hains Point, or a few minutes on a park bench. (A stop at the bar for extreme cases.)

Relative speed is only one factor, it’s just plain courtesy that seems to be missing. As cyclists we can communicate, audibly and otherwise, but many just don’t, or don’t do so early enough and effectively. I’m not what anyone calls fast, and intentionally not on MUPs, but to get passed over & over & over again in the rudest and riskiest possible ways just kills the joy.

I was verbally complimented once by a cyclist behind me, when I hand signaled before slowing and turning off the W&OD. Like Tania, she sounded surprised. It’s just not that hard to ride predictably and with regard to the well-being of other trail users.

Wish I knew the answer to the million dollar question. Zen candies?

[rcannon100]

The answer:

7 things you should give up to be a happy cyclist, London Cyclists

[dkel]

@ginacico 144832 wrote:

Wish I knew the answer to the million dollar question. Zen candies?

We have had this conversation many, many times on this forum; all of us here are well-versed in proper cycling etiquette (whether we actually all do these things…?). If I weren’t on this forum, I don’t think I would know half of this stuff; I would just go out and ride: no calling passes, no waiting patiently instead of shooting the gap, etc. I’m pretty calm and patient by nature, but I wouldn’t know all these things without having learned them from somebody. I think it’s definitely an education and cultural modeling thing.

[dcv]

@rcannon100 144834 wrote:

The answer:

7 things you should give up to be a happy cyclist, London Cyclists

Now I need to borrow a Brompton for some serious cat 6 racing

[dkel]

@dcv 144846 wrote:

Now I need to borrow a Brompton for some serious cat 6 racing

N+1, brah.

[ginacico]

@dkel 144851 wrote:

N+1, brah.

For dcv, single speed only!

[Tania]

@dkel 144838 wrote:

We have had this conversation many, many times on this forum; all of us here are well-versed in proper cycling etiquette (whether we actually all do these things…?). If I weren’t on this forum, I don’t think I would know half of this stuff; I would just go out and ride: no calling passes, no waiting patiently instead of shooting the gap, etc. I’m pretty calm and patient by nature, but I wouldn’t know all these things without having learned them from somebody. I think it’s definitely an education and cultural modeling thing.

An excellent counterpoint and one I take for granted since Dirt escorted me into work a handful of times when I first started commuting and dcv helped me get home.

[huskerdont]

<< rcannon100 7 things you should give up to be a happy cyclist, London Cyclists>>

I like 6 of those 7. I don’t get drafted much on commutes, but if I do and it goes on long enough, I’ll slow down or pull off the trail and wind around a neighborhood or something. After the collision that happened behind me a couple of winters ago when someone was drafting me and passed unsafely, I just don’t have the time for it on the trail anymore. Antisocial I’ll deal with, and unsafe if I can’t do anything about it, but I generally can do something about that one and do.

But yes, I don’t think one can allow oneself to remain upset for long by broad categories of unsocial behavior* because it kills the joy. If you do allow it, then the only advantages you have over a driver are saving money, being fit, and getting to work faster. Well, those aren’t so bad.

*”I have always admired your ability to be personally offended by broad social trends.” – Seymour Skinner

[Subby]

@rcannon100 144834 wrote:

The answer:

7 things you should give up to be a happy cyclist, London Cyclists

Amen x 1,000.

[Anonymous]

@dkel 144838 wrote:

We have had this conversation many, many times on this forum; all of us here are well-versed in proper cycling etiquette (whether we actually all do these things…?). If I weren’t on this forum, I don’t think I would know half of this stuff; I would just go out and ride: no calling passes, no waiting patiently instead of shooting the gap, etc. I’m pretty calm and patient by nature, but I wouldn’t know all these things without having learned them from somebody. I think it’s definitely an education and cultural modeling thing.

For a number of years, I was an occasionally weekend recreational rider on the MVT. I was slow: I didn’t have a speedometer, but I’d guess I never much exceeded about 12mph, generally slower than that, probably.

I did not typically call my passes, presuming the people I was passing were riding/walking in a straight line within the right lane and not spread across the trail or weaving. I was aware that the signs about trail rules said something about giving audible warning, but considering that there are *also* signs that tell you to dismount and walk your bicycle down the hill from mount Vernon and at road crossings, I figured trail signs were basically of the “our lawyer makes us” variety vs something that actually made sense to do. I treated it the same way– I used my judgment and when I passed someone weaving/wobbly or a group spread out across the trail I would call my pass (because it seemed like an obvious good idea to prevent a possible collision); when I passed someone walking or riding to the right in a straight line I didn’t think it was necessary.

However, I did not “shoot the gap”, I did not pass people with 2 inches to spare, I did not pass on blind corners. Seriously, when there are lines of people filling the trail in both directions, how selfish/self-centered do you need to be to think that you, personally are the one who has the right to claim the six inches of space down the middle while everyone else is waiting for a safe passing moment? Or to go into the other lane to pass even though there is oncoming traffic, forcing the person/people heading the correct direction in their own lane to slow, stop, or swerve to avoid a crash because you don’t think that you should be the one to slow down and wait for a clear lane to pass in? How much cycling etiquette education do you need to figure out that using the oncoming lane to pass people around a blind corner is dangerous and a jerk move?

Some things, sure. Calling passes, using bright flashy strobes aimed directly at people’s eyes, are things you might not realize are causing problems for other people. Even joggers doing crazy ivans I can see might not think about it being a bad idea prior to their first close call. But passing directly into oncoming traffic, or at speed within inches of the person you’re passing, or at blind corners? (doing the things that create a genuine danger for other people, mainly) Nope, I personally don’t think “nobody taught me otherwise” is a valid excuse for an adult human engaging in these behaviors.

[eminva]

@huskerdont 144858 wrote:

I like 6 of those 7. I don’t get drafted much on commutes, but if I do and it goes on long enough, I’ll slow down or pull off the trail and wind around a neighborhood or something. After the collision that happened behind me a couple of winters ago when someone was drafting me and passed unsafely, I just don’t have the time for it on the trail anymore. Antisocial I’ll deal with, and unsafe if I can’t do anything about it, but I generally can do something about that one and do.

I totally agree and use the same strategy. As a woman often traveling alone (and in the dark in winter), there is another aspect to this, personal safety. If someone is riding unannounced right on my wheel for miles on end, I get concerned. I have had someone ask and that was great (although if you know to ask, you probably know how to draft safely). But if they just sit back there, slow down when I slow down, speed up when I speed up, etc. . . . they may just be a newb commuter who is doing all they can to get home, but I have no way of knowing.

Liz

[dkel]

@Amalitza 144871 wrote:

I personally don’t think “nobody taught me otherwise” is a valid excuse for an adult human engaging in these behaviors.

I agree, it’s not an excuse, but it may be an explanation.

[DrP]

@Amalitza 144871 wrote:

Nope, I personally don’t think “nobody taught me otherwise” is a valid excuse for an adult human engaging in these behaviors.

How many of these behaviors are also what people do while driving? How many are just poor judgement or not caring about others? I think we are just seeing current human behavior on the trails. We need to change it all over, not just on the trails (kind of like the calls many on this forum make to have all drivers spend time cycling and walking around cars to better understand how it feels and hope that it changes their behavior).

The equivalent to “calling passes” while driving would be signaling. I find that I am one of the now more and more rare driver who uses my turn signal, even when in a “turn-only” lane or when I do not see another vehicle (just because I do not see another vehicle does not mean that one isn’t there and cyclists, peds, etc. need to know intention too. But I know I am in the minority thinking this through).

The equivalent to Crazy Ivans and generally not paying any attention to anyone but themselves while driving might be cell phones/texting/singing to the radio, etc. And suddenly needing to get to that parking space or changing lanes because “I need to make a left NOW” even though one was in the right lane or whatever sudden traffic move is needed despite all the other cars. (I find people that are not willing to go to the next turn and then do some form of U-turn to be particularly self-centered. But that is me. I am not scared of needing to turn around. I do not think that my ego will suffer from it or whatever those people are thinking)

Shooting the gap driving equivalent? Well, if there were only two lanes, that doesn’t typically happen with cars, although there are turn-outs on curvy uphills in places as well as occasional temporary passing lanes up steep hills, that almost appear to be that. And I have seen many a person use the shoulder. However, the roads are typically built to allow for passing of slower riders. The equivalent might be the person weaving in traffic. Some people are good at this, meaning that they actually judge distances and relative speeds well, know how to handle a car, know their car’s actual capabilities, signal their moves, and are willing to hit the brakes when needed (and typically know all their “outs” available). Some people like to think they are good at this. The latter are unsafe drivers. The former can freak out drivers who are not paying attention, meaning, not looking in mirrors and noticing that someone is coming up from behind with a turn signal on, but will not hit other drivers. This “freaking out” happens even on a standard pass on the road because so many drivers are not paying attention. The difference with bikes is that, (1) mirrors are not required so it is rare to know when someone is coming from behind (especially if the pass isn’t called), (2) there is no standard with MUPs or other bike routes so knowing what is and isn’t safe is a judgement call and that fails (especially with the human powered vehicle that sometimes you do not get the acceleration you think you are capable of providing).

And a comment on “shooting the gap,” some trails are wider than others and there is plenty of room for a “third lane.” Some are barely wide enough for single file in each direction. For the former, I will pass going down the middle, if it appears safe. And that is likely the key for anyone who is passing – it “appears safe” or “appears to be fine.” If there is no accident, then perhaps it was a good call. Does it freak out the others on the trail? Quite possibly. Was it unsafe? Hard to say in some cases. There was a cyclist on the W&OD that for a couple of years I would pass on Sunday’s between Vienna and Reston. She ALWAYS yelled that we were “too close!” Even when she was very far right, we called and dinged well in advance and then passed on the far left or were coming towards her but on our far right. We came to realize that she was a poor judge of nearness and probably needed help of some kind. We weren’t going to not pass her.

What can we do about this? Just educate those around us and watch out for the others. Hell, this morning someone passed be on the Custis by ~3 inches without a call, and no, I am not exaggerating. I just kept calm and stated loudly “thank you for telling me that you were going to pass by so closely.” Not much else I could do.

[Author]

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