Burma shave signs on the Custis

[Steve O]

@dasgeh 141086 wrote:

I had a very productive meeting with ArlCo DPR about trails maintenance and such this morning. One piece that came out of it is that DPR Trails folks are willing to help us get “educational” signs up on the Custis, but that such signs will need to be designed and DES-approved. It would probably be a “pilot program” with 1-5 locations, which also would need to be selected and approved before coming to DPR.

With the energy around doing-things-to-respond-to-SafeTrack, there may be an opportunity to get this done rather quickly,

Hahahahahahaha. The original “pilot program,” “wayfinding” signs went up in the spring of 2012. It is now more than 4 years later, and that project is still far from complete. I believe the entire 50/Courthouse interchange was designed and built in the interim, while DES is unable to effectively place a few score signs along the trails. Maybe before we create an entirely new signage program, we should complete the one we’ve started. Shoot, there are errors, missing signs and other corrections that I have communicated to the program manager on numerous occasions over the last 4 years, of which I believe exactly zero have ever been fixed.

In fact, if the original signage program were complete and the signs were truly effective, there would not really be a need for the special Orange/Silver signs that have been placed, and that time spent creating and posting those signs could have been used more effectively on other SafeTrack efforts, like this idea.

Sorry for the rant.

[VA2DC]

@Steve O 141096 wrote:

Shoot, there are errors, missing signs and other corrections that I have communicated to the program manager on numerous occasions over the last 4 years, of which I believe exactly zero have ever been fixed.

Speaking of errors, the Bluemont Junction Trail sign westbound where the trail joins the north end of the Holiday Inn access road would be very confusing to a newbie. Anyone unfamiliar with the trail (presumably, the very same people for whom the signs are intended) would think that to get to Arlington Traditional School/get on Bluemont Junction Trail/go to Bluemont Park, the sign says to turn left immediately and follow drive that runs behind the Holiday Inn parking garage. That wayfinding sign should be placed 100 yards further west where you actually do turn left onto the Bluemont trail. Just a small “Bluemont Junction Trail” sign with a straight ahead arrow would be better in the current spot.

[ATTACH=CONFIG]11918[/ATTACH]

[Drewdane]

If you don’t
Call out your pass
We’ll all know
You are an Ass

[dasgeh]

@Steve O 141096 wrote:

Hahahahahahaha. The original “pilot program,” “wayfinding” signs went up in the spring of 2012.

You make a good point. This would not be wayfinding signs. This would not be official regulatory signs (stop, yield, etc) or official trail rules signs (those long, hard to read signs). These would be short, punchy reminders of trail etiquette. It’s a chance to get something done, and yes, it should be coordinated with County staff time, not volunteer time, but we have two choices: we can spend our time complaining/lobbying to get County staff to coordinate this, or we can spend our time coordinating it.

Well, by “we”, I mean “you”, because I’m prioritizing my volunteer “making biking better” time for other issues. But if anyone sees this as an issue worthy of their time, please speak up.

[dasgeh]

@VA2DC 141174 wrote:

Speaking of errors, the Bluemont Junction Trail sign westbound where the trail joins the north end of the Holiday Inn access road would be very confusing to a newbie. Anyone unfamiliar with the trail (presumably, the very same people for whom the signs are intended) would think that to get to Arlington Traditional School/get on Bluemont Junction Trail/go to Bluemont Park, the sign says to turn left immediately and follow drive that runs behind the Holiday Inn parking garage. That wayfinding sign should be placed 100 yards further west where you actually do turn left onto the Bluemont trail. Just a small “Bluemont Junction Trail” sign with a straight ahead arrow would be better in the current spot.

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Can you please email this to trails@arlingtonva.us AND des@arlingtonva.us? Trails has taken the position that they will do the work of placing signs, but not deciding where signs go. So I’d imagine they’d want DES to tell the to move the sign before they move the sign. But the sign should be moved.

[Steve O]

@dasgeh 141203 wrote:

Can you please email this to trails@arlingtonva.us AND des@arlingtonva.us? Trails has taken the position that they will do the work of placing signs, but not deciding where signs go. So I’d imagine they’d want DES to tell the to move the sign before they move the sign. But the sign should be moved.

And if the sign is moved, a new one will need to be put there instead. Otherwise there’s no directional information whatsoever to guide people to the BJT.

[Tim Kelley]

I’m told that Top Men are working on this.

Top
Men

[Tim Kelley]

Our Top Men responded,

“You know what? Whoever wrote this. They’re right. This sign was put in the wrong place! It was supposed to be much further down the trail, just like they said.
GRRRRRRR…I’ll alert the authorities.

Could you thank them for catching this most grievous of errors?”

[mstone]

Is someone going to rescue all the people who got lost in the parking lot?

[dasgeh]

@Tim Kelley 141220 wrote:

I’m told that Top Men are working on this.

Top
Men

So “this” was just the Bluemont wayfinding sign, not the burma shave signs generally?

[VA2DC]

@mstone 141296 wrote:

Is someone going to rescue all the people who got lost in the parking lot?

I’ll check tonight, but no cyclists were lost in the garage the last time that I rode by there;)

[VA2DC]

@Steve O 141213 wrote:

And if the sign is moved, a new one will need to be put there instead. Otherwise there’s no directional information whatsoever to guide people to the BJT.

@Tim Kelley 141295 wrote:

Our Top Men responded,

“You know what? Whoever wrote this. They’re right. This sign was put in the wrong place! It was supposed to be much further down the trail, just like they said.
GRRRRRRR…I’ll alert the authorities.

Could you thank them for catching this most grievous of errors?”

So the Top Men will move the directional signs down the trail? Will they leave the “Bluemont Junction Trail” sign in the current location to mark the entrance to the BJT, as noted by Steve O?

[americancyclo]

@dasgeh 141322 wrote:

So “this” was just the Bluemont wayfinding sign, not the burma shave signs generally?

I think your thread has been derailed.

[Steve O]

So back to the original thread topic.

Most of the issues described had to do with bad passing–particularly at limited-sight locations. In my mind, a more effective way to deal with these is to use both signage and trail paint at the key locations:
“Blind corner. Do not pass.”

No, not cute or rhymey, but straightforward and clear. Also, in cases where riders pull their jackball moves at places like this, it’s much easier to point out that they are clearly in violation of trail etiquette or guidelines at those points, rather than just a more general “Call your pass” type of message.

Granted, this does not address the issue of riders who pass with oncoming traffic or buzz other people walking or on bikes, but I think it’s the most effective way to deal with this particular issue.

Question: Could this effort include words on the trail surface itself? Or just signage?

[KLizotte]

Perhaps painting the entire trail with red paint where no passing should occur would be good? Similar to how green paint is used in bike lanes in tricky areas. Unfortunately it is unlikely this paint would be regularly maintained so would disappear in time as is occurring to the green paint in some areas.

[Author]

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