BAFS 2020 teams and rules discussion

[Hancockbs]

@TwoWheelsDC 194620 wrote:

**Unpopular opinion alert**

Make the mileage cap 50 (or maybe even below that) for non-commute rides; commute rides (“utility” rides could be counted as “commutes”) can rack up unlimited miles/points; ditch sleaze rides*. Although some might say the spirit of BAFS is to simply get people riding more in the winter, I always perceived the “competition” as a form of advocacy….getting people to do more day-to-day stuff by bike in the winter. Recreational cycling has a relatively small societal/advocacy impact, while the impact of commuting/errand running by bike is immense, so maybe it’s time the rules of the contest reflected that. Also, I’d wager that many of the newbies get involved not so much as motivation to ride for riding’s sake, but for motivation to get shit done by bike.

I HATE riding in the cold and I basically refuse to do purely recreational rides during the winter, but BAFS generally has kept me motivated me to stay on the bike for my (relatively long) commute and errands. That said, every year it feels like the competition has been increasingly taken over by a bunch of (with all due respect, and I’m overgeneralizing) retirees and flexible-work-schedule types who can take tons of random days off to rack up miles. Good on you for riding a century on a Tuesday in mid-January, but what’s the impact? I’d rather the competition do more to recognize the agony of getting up before dark to do an hour-long commute in freezing temperatures, when it would be so easy to just drive…or riding to the grocery store in a blizzard instead of putting yourself and others in danger by driving.

I live near Quantico and work in DC. There is no reasonable way for me to commute to work on my bike. I wish there were. Therefore, the majority of mornings, I drive to work at 5 AM and then complete a 15-20 mile ride around DMV. Last year, the 100 mile team cap motivated me to hit 100 miles each week. Otherwise, it would have probably been closer to 75. I don’t claim to be doing it to contribute to others. I do it for my own health and sanity, but I do think that having another rider for drivers, commuters, riders, etc. to see does contribute to increased awareness of bikes in general and I consider that a good thing and there is the impact. Similarly, the retired or flexible work schedule rider that goes for a long ride on Tuesday does the same. Ultimately, I think the increased sightings and awareness are good for us all.

[TwoWheelsDC]

@jrenaut 194625 wrote:

I agree with the sentiment, TwoWheels, but I think a lower cap would really hurt the game. We put the cap in place to make the standings more competitive. It didn’t work, and it annoyed people, though others found it motivating.

For me, BAFS is a way of getting people excited about riding bikes, even in crummy weather. You should see how little my kids are fazed by being out in bad weather. It’s great. But it’s a balance. I want to promote the way I play the game without alienating the crazy people who ride 300 miles a week. To that end, I think the best thing to do is competitive leaderboards and lots of fun side things, so that everyone can find their niche. Ideally, the high mileage roadie gets a two mile city commuter to go for a long hill ride, and the city commuter gets the roadie to stop in at a few coffee clubs, and we all expand our biking comfort zone a bit and make some new friends.

I’m going to be lower mileage this year than most – last time I rode 80 miles in a week I tore some scar tissue around my repaired Achilles and it hurt to ride for two weeks.

Anyway, I lost my train of thought here, so I’m going to quit while I’m ahead. We should go for a bike ride!

I don’t think I disagree with any of your points in general, but it seems like the pendulum has swung toward this just being a battle of the ultra-milers, with everyone else relegated to the side bets table. For normies like me, the “competition” is basically just luck-of-the-draw on whether you get placed on a team that is heavy on ultra-milers, and it always feels like my contribution is inconsequential. Also, I’m a little perplexed that the spirit of the competition, which was essentially “grinding out winter commuting miles with moral support from teammates,” is now relegated to one (or multiple) side bets. I don’t want to have to join a bunch of stupid side bets just to make my daily commute “count.” I dunno, maybe make the die-hard, ultra-mileage shit the side bet instead? Why even have teams when this just seems to be a competition among a few? If the ultra-milers want to compete individually, that’s fine! But IMO the team competition should be geared more toward “normal” riders and making everyone feel like their contribution is important.

[josh]

Let me put Subby’s idea out there (again) — individual leaderboard is based solely on miles, team leaderboard is based solely on days ridden. People can determine how they want to distribute their riding based on whatever life constraints and desires they have. They can choose if they want to engage in the side bets and pointless prizes or not, and if they want to do social things or not. Personally, I’ll probably aim for a healthy balance across all of these.

[Subby]

@josh 194647 wrote:

Let me put Subby’s idea out there (again) — individual leaderboard is based solely on miles, team leaderboard is based solely on days ridden. People can determine how they want to distribute their riding based on whatever life constraints and desires they have. They can choose if they want to engage in the side bets and pointless prizes or not, and if they want to do social things or not. Personally, I’ll probably aim for a healthy balance across all of these.

In response to people who might complain about team points being tied solely to days ridden, I would say this – the hardest part of winter riding is almost always getting out the door. And I feel like getting people out the door to ride during the winter is the second most important goal of this competition (first being meeting new people and extending our car crushing empire).

[Nadine]

@TwoWheelsDC 194646 wrote:

I don’t think I disagree with any of your points in general, but it seems like the pendulum has swung toward this just being a battle of the ultra-milers, with everyone else relegated to the side bets table. For normies like me, the “competition” is basically just luck-of-the-draw on whether you get placed on a team that is heavy on ultra-milers, and it always feels like my contribution is inconsequential. Also, I’m a little perplexed that the spirit of the competition, which was essentially “grinding out winter commuting miles with moral support from teammates,” is now relegated to one (or multiple) side bets. I don’t want to have to join a bunch of stupid side bets just to make my daily commute “count.” I dunno, maybe make the die-hard, ultra-mileage shit the side bet instead? Why even have teams when this just seems to be a competition among a few? If the ultra-milers want to compete individually, that’s fine! But IMO the team competition should be geared more toward “normal” riders and making everyone feel like their contribution is important.

Gee I don’t feel that way at all. I think the ultra milers DO compete individually, the way it is now – Just look at the top 15-20 people on the individual standings chart & you’ll see it.

The side bets look cool but I’ve never partaken. I really find this community of diehard cyclists who ride through the winter to be the BOMB. Who cares how the other people play the game? Just look how many cool people we have to play with!

Having said that, it’s true that sometimes you end up on a team that doesn’t move much in the standings no matter what you all do, and that can be a li’l disheartening. Probably that will lessen if you get together to ride. But I like the “team” rides being open to everyone – because more people to play with [emoji16], and if you make friends among your teammates, once you’ve done FS for multiple years, you’re gonna wanna ride with your friends you made last year regardless of what team they’re on!

Anyhow I’m just chiming in to ask people to please not piss too hard on the only thing I like about winter. I don’t want our hard working volunteers to get discouraged. Long live Freezing Saddles! [emoji16][emoji3590][emoji106][emoji2187][emoji2186][emoji2187][emoji2186][emoji2187][emoji2186][emoji2187][emoji2186][emoji2187][emoji2186][emoji2187][emoji2186][emoji944][emoji3587]

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[consularrider]

Being an old retired phart who was individual champion the first year of Freezing saddles (when I was a daily commuter) and on the winning team the second year (again as a daily commuter), I just have this to say: Don’t mess with success!

Besides, freezing saddles keeps me off the stationary bike.

[Steve O]

It will be interesting to see how the scoring change shakes things up. It will diminish the ability of the ultra-milers to carry a team and help the daily commuters contribute more, which is what twowheels is getting at I believe.

I’ve been an advocate for equalizing the leaderboards, such that the Beerneuring leaderboard and the Calvinball leaderboard, etc. somehow get equal play on the website (note that these leaderboards do not actually exist on the website).
Those are individual games (at least they have been), not team games, however.

There are a couple of team leaderboards (e.g. Ride Days by team) that are relegated to secondary status under a dropdown menu. If there were a way to make other team competitions more openly competitive it could create ongoing excitement beyond just the days + miles among players on teams that are down the traditional leaderboard but high on the #teamnoodleride (or whatever) leaderboard.

[TwoWheelsDC]

@Nadine 194649 wrote:

Gee I don’t feel that way at all. I think the ultra milers DO compete individually, the way it is now – Just look at the top 15-20 people on the individual standings chart & you’ll see it.

True…my point is that the *team* competition is inextricably linked to this individual competition, which I think detracts from the fun (and point) of the team competition.

@Nadine 194649 wrote:

I really find this community of diehard cyclists who ride through the winter to be the BOMB. Who cares how the other people play the game? Just look how many cool people we have to play with!

Same! I think people should play how they want to play *individually.* But I think as a team competition, it would benefit by diminishing the impact of those top 15-20 riders and focusing more on the every day folks.

@Nadine 194649 wrote:

Having said that, it’s true that sometimes you end up on a team that doesn’t move much in the standings no matter what you all do, and that can be a li’l disheartening. Probably that will lessen if you get together to ride. But I like the “team” rides being open to everyone – because more people to play with [emoji16], and if you make friends among your teammates, once you’ve done FS for multiple years, you’re gonna wanna ride with your friends you made last year regardless of what team they’re on!

As an introverted misanthrope I will respectfully agree to disagree on this point (I’ve been a BAFS participant from the beginning)! Which is why I’d like to see the core of the team competition be about the regular folks who just want to have some extra motivation and maaaaybe feel a little more social, but not have to worry about letting their team down if they aren’t out riding crazy miles or participating in team rides. For those that want to make it more social or individually competitive, they can do so on their own or using the side bets.

TL;DR -The rules/core of the team game should focus on inclusivity. The individual rules and side bets are what can allow for individual preferences/exclusivity.

[Nadine]

@TwoWheelsDC 194654 wrote:

True…my point is that the *team* competition is inextricably linked to this individual competition, which I think detracts from the fun (and point) of the team competition.

As an introverted misanthrope I will respectfully agree to disagree on this point (I’ve been a BAFS participant from the beginning)! Which is why I’d like to see the core of the team competition be about the regular folks who just want to have some extra motivation and maaaaybe feel a little more social, but not have to worry about letting their team down if they aren’t out riding crazy miles or participating in team rides. For those that want to make it more social or individually competitive, they can do so on their own or using the side bets.

TL;DR -The rules/core of the team game should focus on inclusivity. The individual rules and side bets are what can allow for individual preferences/exclusivity.

Ah hahaha as an enthusiastic extrovert married to a guy who’d probably call himself an introverted misanthrope (think Tigger & Eeyore,) I really enjoyed that comment. Also I bow down to your longtime freezing saddle years. No wonder you’re getting a li’l jaded.

I haven’t seen the individual competition interfere with the team thing – but I haven’t been playing for as long as you….. The bigger perspective shaping difference might be the introvert / extrovert thing though.

Which means your point is probably more important than it seems to me – because FS has to work for all the ‘verts!

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Hancockbs]

@Nadine 194656 wrote:

Ah hahaha as an enthusiastic extrovert married to a guy who’d probably call himself an introverted misanthrope (think Tigger & Eeyore,) I really enjoyed that comment.

My wife and I resemble that remark and actually have Tigger and Eeyore Christmas stockings!

[Nadine]

@Hancockbs 194658 wrote:

My wife and I resemble that remark and actually have Tigger and Eeyore Christmas stockings!

Hahaha what a great idea! Which of you is which?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Hancockbs]

@Nadine 194659 wrote:

Hahaha what a great idea! Which of you is which?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I’m Eeyore of course.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[G-Daddy]

Newbie here, posting my first post.

Want to take this opportunity to say THANK YOU to all the volunteers making this competition possible! I’ll be riding through my first winter, and this competition is a big part of the inspiration for doing so.

Appreciate too the posts debating the intent behind the rules, it’s been a great way to get learnt about the history.

Looking forward to meeting some folks, to doing pointless things, and to generally freezing my saddle off!

[Sunyata]

Throwing a wrench in everyone’s scoring demands… I want double points for run commuting.

#slackers

[chuxtr]

@Sunyata 194677 wrote:

Throwing a wrench in everyone’s scoring demands… I want double points for run commuting.

You can be a team of one person competing with yourself.

[Author]

Posts