4MR intersection woes

[Dickie]

Ever since I moved to Shirlington and my commute slightly changed I have encountered the same problem nearly every day when I head home. Granted, I am heading east when most everyone else is going west, but I have narrowly escaped an accident more than a handful of times and I am just waiting for the inevitable. It concerns that stretch of 4MR that dips under Mt. Vernon Ave, runs behind the Berkeley Apartments, then T’s into the next stretch of 4MR that parallels S. Glebe. Nearly every rider heading west in the afternoon assumes no east bound rider will travel straight ahead at that T-junction (which is fair as most do not), but I do. Every day I slow down as I approach that intersection and some jackhole comes flying up that section and nearly t-bones me… no looking, no slowing, just barreling on through. I have slowed to avoid these accidents only to be nearly hit from behind by someone following me…. it’s getting nuts. Please… if you ride that way home, please don’t assume oncoming riders will make that right, some go straight… like I do. Slow down and look for signs from the rider indicating their intentions. I generally point straight and yell now.

[ATTACH=CONFIG]12180[/ATTACH]

[rcannon100]

Conform

Obviously mate, the problem is you are just headed in the wrong direction.

[scoot]

A redesign would help here. Since most riders stay on the trail, it would be much more orderly if that were the straight-ahead direction and your maneuver instead required a left turn.

Also the hazard is greatly compounded by the proximity of that T intersection to the curb edge and to the Glebe Road travel lanes. Such a reconfiguration should set the intersection further back away from the road too. It might cost a tree or two though.

The 4MR trail intersection just west of the Route 1 bridge has similar challenges.

[ginacico]

I only ride through there occasionally, but it will be on my daily commute when I move to the Long Branch Creek neighborhood next month.

As currently configured, that intersection requires an excess of caution that most cyclists in a hurry don’t give it. I agree it would be better served by having the continuing direction be more of a gentle curve while those exiting onto S Glebe have to do something more deliberate, like make a left turn. I don’t know how much right of way is there to create better interactions, but to me it would be worth losing (maybe relocating or replacing?) a couple of trees. In fact, those trees are part of the problem as they interrupt the sight lines.

[vern]

@Dickie 143317 wrote:

Ever since I moved to Shirlington and my commute slightly changed I have encountered the same problem nearly every day when I head home. Granted, I am heading east when most everyone else is going west, but I have narrowly escaped an accident more than a handful of times and I am just waiting for the inevitable. It concerns that stretch of 4MR that dips under Mt. Vernon Ave, runs behind the Berkeley Apartments, then T’s into the next stretch of 4MR that parallels S. Glebe. Nearly every rider heading west in the afternoon assumes no east bound rider will travel straight ahead at that T-junction (which is fair as most do not), but I do. Every day I slow down as I approach that intersection and some jackhole comes flying up that section and nearly t-bones me… no looking, no slowing, just barreling on through. I have slowed to avoid these accidents only to be nearly hit from behind by someone following me…. it’s getting nuts. Please… if you ride that way home, please don’t assume oncoming riders will make that right, some go straight… like I do. Slow down and look for signs from the rider indicating their intentions. I generally point straight and yell now.

[ATTACH=CONFIG]12180[/ATTACH]

The solution seems simple…you need to move.

[DrP]

I have always been cautious there and the location just passed the treatment plant (north/west bound) where there is a similar T, especially after the evening where that underpass was full of water and I took the sidewalk on Glebe instead. I nearly got T-boned as no one turning was expecting anyone to come along the sidewalk – but I saw them and yelled. Anyway, I promise to continue to be cautious there.

However, how do we get folks to signal their eastern turn so that when Dickie isn’t signally that, the western riders realize that something might be different? Changing that location will be hard because it is a sidewalk and the trail is anomaly, as per most non-trail users thinking, but not for the trail users.

Dickie, any way that you could turn there (especially if cyclists are coming) and then exit the trail between the sets of apartments before going under the road? It looks like it might not be a significant detour, even if you were planning to turn and cross Glebe by the supermarket. Just trying to think of ways to avoid a collision, if the sightlines and people are not being cooperative. I know that you shouldn’t have to, but sometimes it is necessary (I know I do this type of thing on bike and in a car – meaning taking a slightly longer route to avoid death or never being able to make a left turn (like on to Wash Blvd in the morning)).

[scoot]

@DrP 143374 wrote:

However, how do we get folks to signal their eastern turn so that when Dickie isn’t signally that, the western riders realize that something might be different?

Even I would say that’s never gonna happen. Dickie is smart to catch their attention by signaling his intention to go straight.

[creadinger]

@ginacico 143326 wrote:

I only ride through there occasionally, but it will be on my daily commute when I move to the Long Branch Creek neighborhood next month.

As currently configured, that intersection requires an excess of caution that most cyclists in a hurry don’t give it. I agree it would be better served by having the continuing direction be more of a gentle curve while those exiting onto S Glebe have to do something more deliberate, like make a left turn. I don’t know how much right of way is there to create better interactions, but to me it would be worth losing (maybe relocating or replacing?) a couple of trees. In fact, those trees are part of the problem as they interrupt the sight lines.

Absolutely. The easy, “saw ready” solution right now would be to lose those 3 trees on the corner.

Looking eastbound as Dickie would do before the intersection.
https://www.google.com/maps/@38.8445387,-77.0706044,3a,90y,102.17h,86.1t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sesXb3k7s3ltobHK9YeYFrw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

[DrP]

@scoot 143377 wrote:

Even I would say that’s never gonna happen. Dickie is smart to catch their attention by signaling his intention to go straight.

I agree, signaling straight is good (I do that trying to get to the switchback from Potomac Ave when I cross the parking lot driveway). However, if no one is used to looking for signals (and yesterday, for the first time, I saw someone signaling a right turn there, usually people just go), then even his “straight ahead” signal will not be seen because they aren’t looking for it.

[KLizotte]

Dickie could simply turn right like most cyclists then pick up the trail again by passing through the apartment complex next to the turn off. A little out of his way but may be safer if the intersection is an issue.

[rcannon100]

@KLizotte 143388 wrote:

Dickie could simply turn right like most cyclists then pick up the trail again by passing through the apartment complex next to the turn off. A little out of his way but may be safer if the intersection is an issue.

Or he could turn right, and then when it is clear, just cut back left and bike across the grass (personally going east, after the little bridge thing, I cut right down the grassy hill for 2 bits of CX practice – s’fun). I really dont understand why Dickie is seeking to impose his problems on the rest of the community. He needs to conform and go with the flow!

[ShawnoftheDread]

Mr. VC says Dickie should take the road and make a left-hand turn at his street.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[OneEighth]

Does any of this negatively impact my ability to get low-fives from Dickie in the mornings?

[LeprosyStudyGroup]

@KLizotte 143388 wrote:

Dickie could simply turn right like most cyclists then pick up the trail again by passing through the apartment complex next to the turn off. A little out of his way but may be safer if the intersection is an issue.

Yeah there is actually a path/parkinglot between the two apartment buildings there that directly connects the trail to the street well before it heads under Mt. Vernon Ave. It would mean following the flow of the usual right turn down the hill, and then turning left into the parkinglot where the fence ends (and where there’s a long straightaway in both directions for all of your signalling and viewing needs). If you’re trying to cross glebe to get to or past the Giant parkinglot area, any of the crossings there are as good as any of the others (awful)

[JorgeGortex]

Add this cycling intersection with the one before it where you come up form under 395 and make the right onto the trail headed toward the section of trail we are discussing is also ridiculous. you come the little hill faced with a fence, have to zig left and then zip hard right to get on the trail along Glebe all while hoping you don’t get creamed by someone coming the other way. This is one of the most ill-designed sections of trail around IMHO. Why could they not just route the trailer straight and have it come together with the street level trail? Lunacy I tell you, lunacy! :-p

[Author]

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