2-stroke engine bike on 4MRT and W&OD

Used to frequently see one of those conversion kit jobs on my evening commute on the 4MRT by the Poop Plant. Nasty little thing.

But to expound on the point the OP mentioned in passing…why should one be opposed to this if they are in favor of “e bikes” (aka quiet motorcycles)? The argument is really a noise and smell-based one, not a safety one? This bike and the “e bikes” both get up to speeds unattainable by most human riders on trails, all while carrying so much mass as to be extremely dangerous in a collision. The only difference is that these 2-stroke motorcycles that people are clutching their pearls about burn fossils on-site, whereas the “e-bikes” that all of our “advocates” love sooooo much have the burning done by Dominion. Can’t help but feel the hypocrisy here – I wish we could have just kept the rule of NO MOTORIZED VEHICLES on trails and been done with it. Humbug!!!!

@DrP 220848 wrote:

So, no hypocrisy from the OP. Lots of Humbug and fist shaking and “get off my lawn,” however.

No, my apologies!!! I wasn’t accusing you of hypocrisy. That accusation was leveled more towards the “advocates” who would faint at the thought of gas-powered motorcycles on the trails, but fought (and won) a battle to let equally dangerous electric motorcycles run rampant. So we’re on the same page and cut from the same grumpy, human-powered-purist cloth!

In virginia we have three classes of ebike. All allow pedaling. Only class 2s will move without pedaling. class 3’s the assistance cuts out at 28MPH, class 1’s at 20MPH

AFAICT all are lighter than diesel powered bikes.

Noise is a real issue.

Re power sources, on average electricity from Virginia is only 4% from coal, negligible from oil. in 2021 57% was from natural gas, which IS a fossil fuel, but lower GHG impact (even with average methane leaks) than oil. And we get 30% from nuclear (GHG free) and 9% from renewables. So EVs in general are better than gasoline or diesel, as far as GHGs are concerned.

So multiple reasons a diesel bike on the trails is worse than an ebike.

I do wonder if it is feasible to limit to certified class 1 ebikes only, with some kind of schemer to make it easily visible which ebikes are in which class. Others here are more expert in that subject though.

I do think large scale ebike adoption is good for the environment, and good for biking in the region. I have not followed any discoure on ebike usage on the trails lately. I can say that I see a lot of ebikes, and in general the behavior of ebike riders is not visibly worse than that of riders of acoustic bikes. I do not know if that would stay the same if we had mass adoption of ebikes by delivery people, as happens in NYC.

In virginia we have three classes of ebike. All allow pedaling. Only class 2s will move without pedaling. class 3’s the assistance cuts out at 28MPH, class 1’s at 20MPH

AFAICT all are lighter than diesel powered bikes.

Noise is a real issue.

Re power sources, on average electricity from Virginia is only 4% from coal, negligible from oil. in 2021 57% was from natural gas, which IS a fossil fuel, but lower GHG impact (even with average methane leaks) than oil. And we get 30% from nuclear (GHG free) and 9% from renewables. So EVs in general are better than gasoline or diesel, as far as GHGs are concerned.

So multiple reasons a diesel bike on the trails is worse than an ebike.

I do wonder if it is feasible to limit to certified class 1 ebikes only (on trails), with some kind of scheme to make it easily visible which ebikes are in which class. Others here are more expert in that subject though.

I do think large scale ebike adoption is good for the environment, and good for biking in the region. I have not followed any discoure on ebike usage on the trails lately. I can say that I see a lot of ebikes, and in general the behavior of ebike riders is not visibly worse than that of riders of acoustic bikes. I do not know if that would stay the same if we had mass adoption of ebikes by delivery people, as happens in NYC.

@arlrider 220858 wrote:

Can’t say I am surprised by the self-justifying responses from the motorcycle users as to why their cases are special and how they are model citizens….

Dude. I do not own an ebike. I have ridden one a few times to just get a better idea of what they are about. I have ridden one for transportation purposes exactly once, and IIRC that was entirely in street, never on a trail.

I DO have thoughts on how ebikes can contribute, as a class, to our transportation system. I have thoughts about how, as a class, they can and should be regulated, and how that might differ from diesel bikes (and indeed, should differ for different types of ebikes) Your comments are not, IMO, contributing to that discourse, and are not winning sympathy to your position.

Be better. Help make this community better. Go for a bike ride.

@lordofthemark 220862 wrote:

Your comments are not, IMO, contributing to that discourse, and are not winning sympathy to your position.

Be better. Help make this community better. Go for a bike ride.

My comments are reflective of reality. That reality is that 1) this thread is about someone being outraged over use of a motor vehicle on a trail, 2) yet that outrage is based off a false dichotomy between different types of motor vehicles, and that 3) the introduction of motor vehicles en masse to trails has made them into incrementally more dangerous places.

Telling me that I am “bad” (opposite of “better”) because I don’t agree with your position is not a valid form of discourse either, and I am not seeking your “sympathy”.

If you want to engage with me, engage with my actual position, which is that the introduction of a certain type of motor vehicle onto trails previously allowed only for human-powered transit, done under the presence of “green” transportation yet ignoring all pre-existing safety-based reasons why motor vehicles were not allowed, has increased the aggregate risk level of using those trails.

@lordofthemark 220863 wrote:

Do you do real world bike advocacy? I have NEVER heard a staffer, elected, or citizen make that argument – not in Alexandria, not elsewhere in greater DC, and not in the national discourse.

Well take a seat, because you just saw a real, live, many-thousands-of-taxes-paying, card-carrying citizen make that argument!

@lordofthemark 220863 wrote:

I have also seen a need for more people to be bike advocates, and have seen ebike riders being bike advocates.

As for need – someone on an ebike capped at 28 MPH may be uncomfortable on a road that is signed at 35MPH. Even one that is signed at 25MPH where drivers routinely go well over 30. A fortiori, someone on Class 1 ebike capped at 21MPH. And note, its not necessarily easy to get to those speeds uphill. On a CaBi ebike I couldn’t get close to 21 MPH on one steep grade – I was VERY glad I was in a PBL.

I don’t disagree that the view above reflects the “short game”. But as these motor vehicles become more and more powerful, there is going to become no distinction between them and other types of motorcycles, other than a pedal system installed as a showpiece. That is going to create lack of rationale for policymakers to advocate for protected lanes. The same people who say “no one bikes” will, in the future, say “Why do motorcycle riders need to be protected? They’ve always ridden on the road.” By breaking down the distinction as to what is and is not a bike, in the long run it is going to erode any support for true bike infrastructure.

The evolution of these motor vehicles has already accelerated beyond the ability or appetite of regulators to keep up. The trails and streets have become the wild west. Which is why I posit that the traditional position of “no motor vehicles on trails” was the easiest to maintain and enforce.

We can agree to disagree. You can call me names and claim I’m not contributing. And I will go for a ride, as you suggest – I’ll just unfortunately have to keep one eye on my six for the next huge rig roaring up on me at automobile speed going uphill, distracted rider at the helm ready to mow me down.