"Stop" Signs on Trails
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- This topic has 27 replies, 19 voices, and was last updated 8 months, 1 week ago by
Andrew Olesen.
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March 1, 2016 at 7:26 pm #1048649
invisiblehand
Participant@S. Arlington Observer 135912 wrote:
If the parks department thinks the signs increase safety it is very wrong. They aren’t legally enforceable and yet appear to declare legal rights. They encourage motorists to be aggressive. They should be removed.
Totally agree with this. There is no need for “fake” signs giving priority to street traffic.
March 1, 2016 at 7:37 pm #1048652Emm
ParticipantI agree with all of your points–this is really concerning and worth having community members send a note to the parks department to ask them to remove the signs. I detest unenforceable signs.
An additional concern is that people may be ticketed for not stopping at the “not enforceable” signs, since individual ACPD officers don’t always know which signs are, and aren’t enforceable. I’m sure you could get the ticket thrown out in court, but it could also impact the police report after an accident at the intersection. I have heard it can be really hard if not impossible to get the fault changed after accidents if the police report isn’t correct.
March 1, 2016 at 7:55 pm #1048655scoot
ParticipantA private driveway should never have right-of-way over a public trail. The stop sign should definitely be removed. If a lot of drivers are not yielding here, it should be replaced with a “Yield to Trail Users” sign facing the driveway.
March 1, 2016 at 9:07 pm #1048658Lt. Dan
ParticipantIt would be terrific is someone turned those signs 90 degrees so they faced drivers…
March 1, 2016 at 9:23 pm #1048659bobco85
ParticipantThe stop signs should be taken down, but there is another issue going on here that is important to consider and is likely the problem behind the symptom: visibility.
The crossings on Lucky Run Trail (2 in total) and Bluemont Junction Trail (3 in total not including Wilson Blvd/GMDrive) are at best partially obscured by foliage/telephone poles/fences/parked cars/other objects or non-perpendicular angles. These make it harder for a driver to see a cyclist moving into the crosswalk and for a cyclist looking for drivers as they approach. The Lucky Run Trail crossings are made more difficult because there is another crosswalk about 15-20 feet away at the stoplight at Walter Reed Dr, so drivers passing the first crosswalk then have to watch for another one. I can see how drivers would want to put stop signs up to make everyone else wait, even though it would be easier to just *gasp* drive slower to improve the situation.
Putting up stop signs that have no force of law, confusing trail users (who has right of way?), and giving drivers the impression that they do not need to obey the VA law to yield to people in a crosswalk is not the way to go.
My solution? Remove the stop signs. Clear obstructions to provide better sightlines where possible. Add crosswalk signs for drivers. Add “Slow – Road Crossing” signs for trail-users.
March 1, 2016 at 10:12 pm #1048662DismalScientist
ParticipantMaybe they should post signs reflecting the law:
DO NOT ENTER CROSSWALK WITHOUT DUE REGARD FOR TRAFFIC.
March 1, 2016 at 10:32 pm #1048664dasgeh
ParticipantIf someone wanted to do some research, and write something up, I bet the BAC would be amenable to a motion advising the County Manager to (1) take down these signs and (2) make sure the process of putting up traffic control signs in the future is clear, transparent, and takes into account the safety and best interests of the entire community.
March 1, 2016 at 10:54 pm #1048668Steve O
Participant@DismalScientist 135935 wrote:
Maybe they should post signs reflecting the law:
DO NOT ENTER CROSSWALK WITHOUT DUE REGARD FOR TRAFFIC.
And “CARS MUST YIELD TO PERSONS IN CROSSWALK”
March 2, 2016 at 12:27 am #1048676Judd
ParticipantNew law: everybody stop at intersections and awkwardly stare at each other until someone goes.
March 2, 2016 at 1:43 pm #1048692annoyedindc
Participant@Steve O 135941 wrote:
And “CARS MUST YIELD TO PERSONS IN CROSSWALK”
Did cyclists get updated to personhood status? I thought that was reserved for corporations.
The two laws do seem at odds with each other though.
March 2, 2016 at 4:50 pm #1048712Steve O
ParticipantI received an email from Arlington Parks today informing me that the stop signs have been removed from this location.
March 2, 2016 at 5:52 pm #1048716ShawnoftheDread
ParticipantDid you ask them to head on over to the Marriot?
March 4, 2016 at 3:18 pm #1048864baiskeli
Participant@annoyedindc 135970 wrote:
Did cyclists get updated to personhood status? I thought that was reserved for corporations.
Well, cyclists are people too. But to answer your question, the law states elsewhere that bicyclists have the rights and duties of pedestrians when using crosswalks, and they don’t need to dismount either.
March 4, 2016 at 3:23 pm #1048865baiskeli
Participant@Steve O 135988 wrote:
I received an email from Arlington Parks today informing me that the stop signs have been removed from this location.
Bluemont too?
March 4, 2016 at 3:31 pm #1048866DismalScientist
ParticipantAs someone who bikes and drives through the intersection of the Bluemont Trail and Kensington St, I must say it sucks for everybody. Bicycle traffic probably should slow down almost to a complete stop given the atrocious sightlines regardless of whether there is a stop sign.
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