[Roscoe]

@jabberwocky 9930 wrote:

You seem to be arguing that cyclists mere presence on the road is “rude”, because it sometimes holds drivers up. Am I misunderstanding you?

Indeed you are. I assure you that I’m on these roads on two wheels as much as many others here must be.

I’m saying that when I ride, I stick to the right of the lane as much as possible and try to show respect for traffic by making sharing as convenient for them as possible. Just like I show respect for the cyclists by not being too close and otherwise respecting their safety as much as possible.

What I’m saying is that it disgusts me that I see so many cyclists that I am absolutely convinced take the road with the deliberate intent to flex their ego by riding 2-abreast, and inconveniencing the traffic, when they could just as easily show others a little respect by riding single file to enable traffic to pass more easily.

[Roscoe]

@jrenaut 9928 wrote:

Yes, it is always illegal to cross a double yellow line, even if you’re really really inconvenienced. You are free to advocate for forbidding all cyclists from the road – that’s one of the wonderful things about living in a democracy. But I think you’d be better off taking your own advice and learning to share the road.

Oh, I think I’m quite good at sharing the road, regardless of what you might think. But sharing the road and being respectful towards the safety of others doesn’t mean one has to be pleased about the fact that so often they are doing it for people that don’t have the slightest concern for showing courtesy towards others.

So on the weekends when the roads near me are very full of both traffic and cyclists……. all the traffic passing the 2-abreast cycists is actually violating the law ? Thanks, I hadn’t known that. I can only imagine how inconvenient these roads would be if everyone followed that law.

As far as my right to democratically advocate something……thanks for pointing that out, though I was indeed well aware of that right. I guess I’m just different from you in that I would prefer people to voluntarily show others some courtesy instead of telling them to deal with my deliberate rudeness and go “advocate” a change if I didn’t like it.

[Roscoe]

@rcannon100 9902 wrote:

……if I am riding on a road, I am going to take the full lane…….

Please don’t ever ride on a road near me.

I exercise extreme caution and courtesy towards the tremendous amount of cyclists riding near my home. I feel comfortable in expecting them in return to not to be rude while riding.

[Roscoe]

@jrenaut 9923 wrote:

In order to pass legally, the car must fully leave the lane, and only when the line is dotted. If the bikes are riding legally while the cars are driving illegally, I’m not sure how one could conclude that the cyclists are being rude.

So according to this, on some of the roads where i live in MD near the DC border……..cars can NEVER legally pass cyclists, since they would always have to cross a double yellow line to do so ? That sure doesn’t seem to make a lot of sense to me. If that’s the case, as an avid cyclist myself I would strongly advocate forbidding cyclists from the road. Anyone ever seen Jones Mill Road on a weekend ? It’s pretty lame right now, the way the cyclists show no respect for the traffic. I can only imagine what it would be like with traffic backed up and slowed to 15 mph IF EVEN THAT for the entire day.

[Roscoe]

@jabberwocky 9901 wrote:

Riding abreast is actually good etiquette on narrow roads. If a cyclist and car cannot share a lane legally (which is much more common than people think), the car must leave the lane entirely to pass safely anyway, and riding abreast is then helpful because it reduces the distance the car needs to pass.

Again, not true. It may reduce the FORWARD distance comprised in passing…..by an amount of perhaps 6-8 feet, which is about the amount of additional space 2 riders would take when riding in file versus abreast. But the amount of lateral movement the cars must make swing around side-by-side riders is increased by a larger amount. And has a higher margin for misjudgement by an unskilled motorist than simply moving forward. And this, of course, says nothing of the fact that cars frequesntly have to pull out into the oncoming lane just to effectively SEE whether they have a perfect opportunity to pass or not.

These riders CHOOSING to be selfish just make the roads more dangerous for everyone, obviously in addition to inconveniencing traffic.

[Roscoe]

@Joe Chapline 9897 wrote:

It would take less time for a driver to pass two cyclists riding side-by-side than two cyclists riding in single file. The driver would need less of a gap in oncoming traffic. If it’s not safe for the driver to be halfway in the oncoming lane if there might be oncoming traffic around the next curve, it could be better to be entirely in the oncoming lane for a shorter time.

This would only be true if passing consisted solely of the forward movement required in cars passing cyclists. But since it obviously requires a far greater lateral movement for a car to pass two riders abreast, it actually takes a good bit longer to pass cyclists riding like that.

And it inconveniences the traffic more because they not only need a larger gap to make this longer pass, they frequently cannot judge the situation as well with their imperfect vision of the road caused by the cyclists riding abreast. Which obviously results in longer back-ups behind the cyclists. As does the fact that numerous motorists may lack the confidence to pass completely in the oncoming lane. Sure, you can say that those motorists SHOULD have greater skill and confidence….but with some of the poor drivers and elderly folks on the road, it’s just not the case.

The result is simply that the riders riding 2-abreast frequently cause a large traffic backup because they have CHOSEN to do something inconvenient for the people they should be sharing the road with. I see it ALL THE TIME. And of course since all the riders solo or in file seem to be doing just fine, this is just another example of people CHOOSING to be selfish and rude. Seems pretty much standard in this part of the country.

So this post just seems to me to be justifying rudeness while cycling. I’ve never seen this problem in any of the other cities I’ve cycled or driven in regularly. And while the traffic around here is also clearly impatient and rude also…at least they are not making a CONSCIOUS DECISION to do something they know will inconvenience other people, as the 2-abreast cyclists appear to be doing. In my area at least, they seem to take it as some opportunity to flex their selfish ability to temporarily seize control of the roads. The repeated rudeness I see from cyclists in this area disgusts me.

[Roscoe]

@washcycle 9894 wrote:

As for rudeness, it’s hard to say why these cyclists are riding two abreast. Perhaps it’s for safety reasons, in which case it isn’t rude. You don’t really know until you ask them why they’re doing it. To assume that it out of selfishness and a lack of concern for others is unfair to them.

Finally, no one is forced to change lanes. Anyone is free to stay behind the bikes in front of them and go 15mph. As far as I know, going 15mph in a 25 mph zone has never killed anyone.

First of all, close observation should reveal that I actually AM trying to figure out why these cyclists are riding 2-abreast. Does your post indicate that you believe I should somehow “ask them” why they’re doing it ? It would interest me to learn some reason why they acquire some great safety advantage when the single cyclists appear to be just fine, as do the ones who ride together but following eachother as I always do unless I’m in a residential area with no traffic.

As far as being free to stay behind people riding 2-abreast, for what frequently appears to be only to chat, and going 15mph in a 25 mph zone frequently in a backlog of traffic…..it’s pretty annoying. But I’m sure that since going 15mph in a 25mph zone “never killed anyone” you must do it all the time, in addition to voluntarily going 10 miles under the speed limit most or all other times in standard conditions. Right ?

But then again, inconveniencing (frequently many) other people for what appears to be no good reason pretty much defines the term “rudeness.” But I guess that’s OK in your opinion because……it won’t kill anyone. I guess you’re also OK with people cutting in front of you in line because waiting a little longer never killed anyone either. Right ?

[Roscoe]

@jrenaut 9886 wrote:

That’s why they’re two abreast – to make sure drivers have to leave the lane completely to pass. The law in DC is three feet to pass. If you’re passing a bike without leaving the lane, there’s a good chance you’re breaking the law, and an even better chance you’re coming too close to the bike. The profanity is still uncalled for, but we’ve all been passed too close enough times to know where it’s coming from.

This is interesting, and not the only thing mentioned here that is or may be new to me. I didn’t know that was the actual law, perhaps because it may only be applicable in DC ? In any event, I think that as an avid cyclist, I am like everyone here and when passing in a car I take care to give other cyclists more than enough room to feel very safe. That may be part of why I have become more annoyed than others seem to be when cyclists don’t return that respect.

As far as riding 2-abreast so drivers must leave the lane ENTIRELY (or even nearly entirely)……I might not understand you correctly. You’re saying that that is a GOOD thing ? I’m open to other opinions and the opportunity to learn something, but my experience seems to indicate quite the opposite. For example, I’m sure people here have ridden Jones Mill Road or even Beach Drive. It’s not a good thing at all to have cars needing to pass entirely in the oncoming lanes on those roads. It’s downright unsafe, particularly given that there are a lot of drivers out there who may not be as capable as most of us here who are willing to take to the roads on two wheels. In fact, when I consider some of the drivers I’ve seen around here, or some of my freinds’ local grandparents who drive…..it’s downright petrifying on some of these roads. And that doesn’t even begin to address some of the huge backlogs of traffic I’ve seen that is forced to go 15mph or less at length.

But just for the record, since I had not known this – is it considered common procedure for cyclists outside the District to ride 2-abreast to FORCE the traffic to need to leave the lane entirely ? Maybe I’m mistaken on this, but that seems even ruder than I’d imagined. More deliberately inconveniencing to others as opposed to just not caring.

[Roscoe]

@creadinger 9880 wrote:

.. you are definitely not talking about the majority of people….

Perhaps not, but it’s definitely a tremendously greater proportion of rude people than I’ve encountered ANYWHERE else. Rudest people I’ve ever had the displeasure of living amongst are right here for an absolute certainty, and it’s best exemplified by the motorists and bikers. Disgusts me on a regular basis.

[Roscoe]

@creadinger 9876 wrote:

I won’t excuse their behavior, but if you’re going to live in this area you’re going to have to accept rudeness. It is just a very unfortunate fact! If I let it get to me every time I saw someone in a BMW pass me only to merge at the last second, while I’m stuck in a line of traffic because the lane ahead is closed it would shorten my life by a decade. Seems like you should take a chill pill too before you seriously stress yourself out.

You’re probably right about everything, not just the above quoted part.

Maybe I just needed to vent.

[Roscoe]

I’ll actually add something else since we’re on the subject, lol.

I use the Capital Crescent trail, and the ones it joins onto, a pretty decent amount. And it’s a great system and a great thing to have. Especially for all the commuters – I love that people can ride 8,10,15 miles or so to work instead of commuting by alternate methods. My wife rides on the trail a bit too, though she doesn’t go as far as many folks do.

But the speeding and rudeness on that trail is just absolutely shocking also. That trail is for everyone – not just accomplished cyclists. People that want to near or above 20 mph on that trail should go somewhere else. There are pedestrians there, elderly folks, kids, people with pets…….and people just speed by at an amazingly fast rate for there. I know two people that have been struck by other cyclists while cycling, one needing to go to the hospital.

And I like to ride hard myself, so I understand that part. And my friends and I have always believed that when we’re mountain biking if you never wreck your’re just not going fast enough.

But why are so many of these people on this trail just so consistently and totally INCONSIDERATE and RUDE ? They make me sick. A generalization, I know…..but the DC/MD area cyclists I’ve encountered are far and away the rudest, most disgustingly inconsiderate group of cyclists I’ve seen in my life. I just don’t understand it.

[Roscoe]

@dasgeh 9873 wrote:

Then I kept reading the original post. I don’t think side-by-side riding is always rude. In fact, I’d say around here, it’s usually the safer, more considerate option. Most of the lanes I’m familiar with around here aren’t wide enough to pass one cyclist safely in the lane, especially with the hazards often found on the far right side. I almost always take the lane. Given that I’m going to be taking the lane, if there’s a 2nd cyclist, it’s actually better for drivers for us to ride side by side.

Thank you for the thoughtful response, I will consider it and see if I see things differently.

I live, cycle and drive all around the Chevy Chase side of the Rock Creek park. Just today I encountered something that is pretty standard on any number of roads around here – cyclists going side by side at a pretty leisurely clip – probably not over 15 mph on a road that was 25 mph. Traffic backed up behind them – drivers going out of THEIR way to not endanger these cyclists who could have allowed everyone access to the road by going single file – until drivers saw an opportunity to pass. And when they DID pass, they had to swing nearly fully into the oncoming lane to stay away from the cyclists.

I see this ALL THE TIME, and all it does is make everyone less safe by forcing the cars to have to pass so widely, into possible oncoming traffic. It’s deliberately RUDE, I’m tired of it, and it disgusts me.

What I have actually NEVER seen here, though, is a single cyclist just taking the entire lane. That seems to make no sense on the roads near me….or I would have seen it by now, right ?

By the way, I’ve passed cyclists like this while driving (obviously at a pretty slow clip and only when the road is totally clear) after waiting behind them for a bit and said out the window “hey, share the road please”……..and I almost always get a barrage of profanity. From what I assume to frequently be educated professionals who clearly can afford very expensive bikes. It’s crazy, like it’s doctors or lawyers or consultants or who knows what that just seem to be WAITING for the chance to verbally express the statement of rudeness they try to make with their cycling – “Hey **** you a*****e !!! Go **** yourself !!!!!!”

I’ve seen a lot of cyclists and ridden a whole lot of miles myself….I’m sure as many as a lot of the people here, so I see things from both sides. And I know that generalizing something doesn’t always apply to evreyone in a group (which would also be me in this case)…..but the MD recreational road bikers have come to simply disgust me. Their rudeness just makes me sick.

[Author]

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