[jabberwocky]

Like I said, I have no familiarity with the road in question. How wide is the lane though? If its less than 14 feet, it doesn’t really matter (that would be a substandard lane, given an average operating bike width of ~4 feet, 3 feet of passing distance per DC law, and an average vehicle width of 5.5-7 feet). In that case, cars must go into oncoming traffic to pass legally and safely regardless of where the bike is positioned, so I don’t see why it matters where the bikes are positioned or how many of them there are. All riding right does on those roads is encourage motorists to make marginal (or frankly dangerous) passes.

[jabberwocky]

@Roscoe 9990 wrote:

Is it unreasonable to expect to go the speed limit, or to be able to pass cyclists while everyone exercises responsible caution ?

To expect to go the speed limit? Legally, its a limit, not the minimum speed. So no, its not reasonable to expect to go the speed limit.

Be able to pass cyclists? Absolutely, if the road design and circumstances warrant it. I think where we disagree is expecting cyclists to facilitate passing at (potentially) their own expense. I don’t think thats reasonable. If a cyclist is riding within the laws, they are fulfilling their obligation. Its up to the motorist to pass safely. If they cannot, they should not attempt to pass.

@Roscoe 9990 wrote:

If that’s the case, why don’t we hear from more people (anyone, actually) advocating THAT ?

Google “vehicular cycling” and you will indeed find a lot of people advocating exactly that. EDIT: Vehicular cycling even has a Wikipedia page! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vehicular_cycling

I personally don’t take the lane at all times. You need to judge when its helpful from a safety standpoint and whatnot.

When I first started commuting back in 2005, I actually conducted an experiment. On a certain road (narrow, with moderate traffic volume) I started by riding as far right as absolutely possible. In the gutter, basically. Every day I’d move a little further out. I found there was definitely a sweet spot where you’d get the most passing room and respect from motorists, and it was when I was pretty far out (roughly 12″ left of where most cars right tires go, or maybe 35-40% across the lane). To the right of that I actually got less passing room on average, because cars would try and squeeze by when it wasn’t safe to do so (and would give me less room as a result). At a certain point, cars stop attempting to squeeze past when there isn’t room.

[jabberwocky]

I’m a fast driver, dood. But I sure as hell don’t expect to go fast on a road with a 25mph speed limit. Roads generally have low speed limits for a reason.

Whether you believe taking the lane increases safety or not, the right to do is enshrined in law (for a reason), its taught and encouraged by pretty much every cycling organization in the country (again, for a reason) and is even encouraged by state departments of transportation (as linked earlier in the thread, and again, for a reason). Cyclists by and large aren’t doing it to piss you off, they’re doing it because it increases their safety.

[jabberwocky]

@Roscoe 9972 wrote:

I don’t have any sickness, rage or disgust for people on bikes. Just the ones that think it’s their time to ride side by side to chat while going 15mph in a 25 zone.

Anyone complaining about being held up on a road with a 25mph speed limit deserves a smack with a wet fish. Roads with 25mph speed limits are small, neighborhood roads. They are not, by and large, commuting arteries. You should absolutely expect slow traffic on them. If slow traffic bothers you, do not commute on small roads with low speed limits.

[jabberwocky]

I don’t know what road you’re having these issues one (and honestly, I rarely ride in DC so I can’t comment on the RUDENESS of the riders there). Cycling has its share of selfish jerks, just like any other group of human beings.

I do reject the premise that taking the lane or riding 2 abreast is automatically rude. A sufficiently narrow road is going to require the motorist to use the opposite lane to safely pass regardless of where the cyclist is positioned. In my experience, motorists who get annoyed in these circumstances are the ones who want to pass in marginal circumstances anyway (i.e. on narrow roads, blind turns, etc). As such, I don’t feel all that inclined to decrease my own safety to facilitate their convenience.

I don’t advocate taking the lane in all circumstances, but I certainly will do so when I think it makes me safer, and fortunately the law is in agreement with me even if your average motorist isn’t. Does that make me rude? I don’t really know, and honestly don’t really care.

[jabberwocky]

@Roscoe 9926 wrote:

Please don’t ever ride on a road near me.

I exercise extreme caution and courtesy towards the tremendous amount of cyclists riding near my home. I feel comfortable in expecting them in return to not to be rude while riding.

Taking the lane is absolutely necessary for safety on some roads. It has nothing to do with being rude.

EDIT: You seem to be arguing that cyclists mere presence on the road is “rude”, because it sometimes holds drivers up. Am I misunderstanding you?

[jabberwocky]

This Florida Bike Law link gives a nice illustration as to minimum lane widths and riding 2 abreast and such.

http://www.floridabicycle.org/rules/bikelaw.html

Virginia laws are similar, with the exception of a 2 foot rather than 3 foot minimum passing width.

As with anything bike related, its good to know the law, but its even better to not get run over by impatient drivers. So use your judgement. :p

[jabberwocky]

Riding abreast is actually good etiquette on narrow roads. If a cyclist and car cannot share a lane legally (which is much more common than people think), the car must leave the lane entirely to pass safely anyway, and riding abreast is then helpful because it reduces the distance the car needs to pass.

[jabberwocky]

MOREs where to ride page:
http://www.more-mtb.org/forum/showthread.php?t=18121

LORO trail wiki:
http://www.logoffrideon.com/trails/index.php?title=Lake_Fairfax

The LORO wiki has a pretty accurate trail map (which I happened to draw) of the trails at Lake Fairfax.

[jabberwocky]

@justasaintz 9409 wrote:

Actually Dirt, you forgot about Difficult run, unless you mentioned it by some other name. I did it almost a year ago and liked it.

These days, most people refer to Difficult Run as Lake Fairfax. It used to be that the loop everyone would do was to ride the Rails to River Trail (which is the doubletrack from the corner of the Ice Rink off Michael Faraday) through Lake Fairfax, across Hunter Mill Rd to where it joins the CCT at Carpers Farm Way. From there, ride the CCT south to the W&OD and then ride the W&OD back to the ice rink. I’ve heard that loop referred to as the Colts Neck Loop or the Difficult Run loop. But now theres enough singletrack in Lake Fairfax proper to do nice 6-10 mile loops in there without doubling up on too much trail, so its less common to ride the the larger loop.

I’ve also heard people refer to northern sections of the CCT as “Difficult Run”. Which makes sense, since the CCT parallels difficult run for the whole section north of the W&OD.

[jabberwocky]

@Dirt 9222 wrote:

I need to start up running slightly more seriously for the winter. I may get myself one of those fancy Garmin running watches.

I just picked up a Garmin Forerunner 610 (using the gift card you gave me forever ago for watching the kitties). Its super snazzy.

[jabberwocky]

I have to say, I have a showerspass elite jacket and while I like the design and material, the build quality has been very poor. Many of the taped seams have delaminated and I’ve had to repair them myself (shoe goo and sewing machine). Their support was non-existent. I wouldn’t recommend them.

[jabberwocky]

When I commuted on the W&OD, I would leave the light on but set it to constant. Far less annoying to stare at.

[jabberwocky]

I drew all the maps on the LORO wiki and help maintain the entries. I also lead casual rides through both LORO and MORE when I have time. Wakefield would be my local recommendation (along with its sister park Accotink). Then Laurel Hill (down in Lorton) and Lake Fairfax (Reston).

Whats your skill level like? If you’re looking for more advanced trail, Gambrill and the Watershed up in Frederick have you covered.

[jabberwocky]

@vvill 8967 wrote:

– Tim and Chris racing each other up one of the climbs

Haha! Yeah, the 24th St/N Upton St climb. Tim beat me, but not by a whole lot. I very quickly realized that I wasn’t going to complete the ride if I kept racing up the climbs though.

It was nice meeting you (and everyone else) on the ride. We had a super group. Things went amazingly smoothly.

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