Your latest bike project?

[TwoWheelsDC]

@hozn 161913 wrote:

So I’ve been enjoying this new frame (well, pretty much a new bike) a lot. From a spec perspective, it’s perfect. The tire clearance is ample (I’ve run 43s, but looks like 45 would fit fine, and 650×47 works) without sacrificing ability to run a big 1x ring. Thru-axle is fantastic as I knew it would be, etc.

It does have an annoyance, though, that has surfaced in recent weeks which I’m unsure whether to fault as a building defect (them), bad design (me), or simply an expectation of using a coupler bike as a daily rider (no one): it starts making noise (sounds like BB clicking) after a couple/few weeks of use.

Basically, when the couplers are greased up and torqued down hard (about as hard as I can with the provided 6″ish wrench) the bike is quiet no matter how hard I mash on it. I’ve taken it to the group hill rides — and I’m definitely a tall-gear masher, which I’m sure isn’t helping me here. I don’t check on the coupler tightness (which is maybe an user error), but after a couple weeks or so it starts making some noise. In one case, it seemed like it had come a tiny bit loose; tightening it helped. More recently it still seemed just as tight, but opening it up and cleaning it out and regreasing every aspect of the coupler interface made problem go away. Most recently it’s being a little more stubborn and still making some noise on out of saddle hill climbs despite regreasing. Maybe I didn’t regrease it quite as well as before. Not sure exactly which interface is rubbing/clicking/moving.

Maybe the tolerances aren’t quite as perfect. Or maybe the smaller downtube is to blame (to be fair, Waltly did originally propose a much larger down tube, which would probably have made a stiffer system down there).

@ginacico, have you ever had any issues with noise from your couplers (or heard of others with this problem)? Is there any regular maintenance you do on your coupler frame?

I’m hopeful that I can find a system and grease setup that will just work. I did order an official S&S wrench, because the provided tool isn’t very good and has caused me to nick the coupler interface in a few places (and I’m concerned that if I keep using it I’ll eventually be unable to property tighten the couplers). I originally tried the S&S recommended high-fluo-crazy-expensive grease. That seemed to work ok. More recently, when it made noise I decided to try something a little heavier, so am using copper anti-seize. But as that didn’t seem to cure the problem, I might go back . I’m going to take apart and fully clean the couplers as there was a lot of dust (maybe dust from the frame finishing?) in there.

If the pattern of needing maintenance every few weeks keeps up, though, I might consider relegating this frame to travel only and getting an identical-except-for-couplers version to use as the daily commuter. Waltly will give me a significant discount, at least, if I decide to do that. (They said it should be quiet when correctly torqued, but I don’t think they’d accept this as a warranty-able issue.) I’m a little picky, but nothing drives me crazier than a creaky bike (and right now the creak from my shoes is actually a lot louder, so I probably should figure that one out first).

I have a creak in the rear dropout of my gravel bike that is similarly difficult to keep under control. At first I was convinced it was the BB. I swapped that out (not solely due to the creak) and that didn’t fix it. Then I thought it was derailleur hanger. Tried a new one complete with gobs of grease and no change. Then I thought it was the skewer, but swapping that out with one from a different wheelset didn’t fix things. Turns out there is just something with the dropout that makes it creak. Only solution is to grease the hell out of it and tighten the skewer within an inch of its life. Even then I still have to re-grease/re-tighten every couple of weeks.

[hozn]

@TwoWheelsDC 161918 wrote:

I have a creak in the rear dropout of my gravel bike that is similarly difficult to keep under control. At first I was convinced it was the BB. I swapped that out (not solely due to the creak) and that didn’t fix it. Then I thought it was derailleur hanger. Tried a new one complete with gobs of grease and no change. Then I thought it was the skewer, but swapping that out with one from a different wheelset didn’t fix things. Turns out there is just something with the dropout that makes it creak. Only solution is to grease the hell out of it and tighten the skewer within an inch of its life. Even then I still have to re-grease/re-tighten every couple of weeks.

You definitely tried the few things I would have! — My GT Zaskar rear derailleur hanger does get loose for some reason and creaks like *crazy*. And I have definitely had creaks go away by tightening skewers and then by greasing.

Yeah, creaks are frustrating.

[dkel]

@hozn 161917 wrote:

Yeah, I have tried paraffin (with similar results). I have some silicone spray that helps for maybe a couple hours. Spraying chain lube on the cleats has a similar effect. Seems to be a bit dependent on humidity or temperature, haven’t figured it out exactly. Also, it’s relatively new development with these shoes, which seems weird. Maybe moving the cleats a little would help (?) — but they’re kinda in the right position now, so don’t really want to do that. But it’s driving me crazy!

I have a suspicion that my creaking comes from the flat parts of the shoes interacting with the flat parts of the pedals, rather than the cleat interface. I’m not sure if it’s true, though.

[hozn]

@dkel 161922 wrote:

I have a suspicion that my creaking comes from the flat parts of the shoes interacting with the flat parts of the pedals, rather than the cleat interface. I’m not sure if it’s true, though.

That is my theory too: the parts of the spd pedal rubbing against the carbon sole. I will try some isolated application of paraffin to see if i can figure out which part.

[anomad]

@TwoWheelsDC 161918 wrote:

I have a creak in the rear dropout of my gravel bike that is similarly difficult to keep under control. At first I was convinced it was the BB. I swapped that out (not solely due to the creak) and that didn’t fix it. Then I thought it was derailleur hanger. Tried a new one complete with gobs of grease and no change. Then I thought it was the skewer, but swapping that out with one from a different wheelset didn’t fix things. Turns out there is just something with the dropout that makes it creak. Only solution is to grease the hell out of it and tighten the skewer within an inch of its life. Even then I still have to re-grease/re-tighten every couple of weeks.

Have you tried carbon assembly paste instead of grease? It’s designed for connecting parts and solved a couple creaks for me. Generally good to have around if you have carbon stuff too.

[hozn]

@anomad 161936 wrote:

Have you tried carbon assembly paste instead of grease? It’s designed for connecting parts and solved a couple creaks for me. Generally good to have around if you have carbon stuff too.

Hmmm, I wonder if that would apply in my situation too. I hadn’t really thought of that — not sure why, I guess I have only used it to “add torque”, usually for carbon but also I use it on my stem/bar interface instead of grease. I’ll read on that a bit, though, to see if that’s advised against.

[dkel]

@hozn 161925 wrote:

That is my theory too: the parts of the spd pedal rubbing against the carbon sole. I will try some isolated application of paraffin to see if i can figure out which part.

My main point of confusion is why it would squeak some days and not others. Humidity? Road dust? My soles are not carbon, so it doesn’t seem to be materials exclusive.

[ginacico]

@hozn 161913 wrote:

It does have an annoyance, though, that has surfaced in recent weeks which I’m unsure whether to fault as a building defect (them), bad design (me), or simply an expectation of using a coupler bike as a daily rider (no one): it starts making noise (sounds like BB clicking) after a couple/few weeks of use.

Basically, when the couplers are greased up and torqued down hard (about as hard as I can with the provided 6″ish wrench) the bike is quiet no matter how hard I mash on it. I’ve taken it to the group hill rides — and I’m definitely a tall-gear masher, which I’m sure isn’t helping me here. I don’t check on the coupler tightness (which is maybe an user error), but after a couple weeks or so it starts making some noise. In one case, it seemed like it had come a tiny bit loose; tightening it helped. More recently it still seemed just as tight, but opening it up and cleaning it out and regreasing every aspect of the coupler interface made problem go away. Most recently it’s being a little more stubborn and still making some noise on out of saddle hill climbs despite regreasing. Maybe I didn’t regrease it quite as well as before. Not sure exactly which interface is rubbing/clicking/moving.

Maybe the tolerances aren’t quite as perfect. Or maybe the smaller downtube is to blame (to be fair, Waltly did originally propose a much larger down tube, which would probably have made a stiffer system down there).

@ginacico, have you ever had any issues with noise from your couplers (or heard of others with this problem)? Is there any regular maintenance you do on your coupler frame?

My coupler frame makes no noise at all, it behaves exactly like a solid steel frame. It has not had a tendency to wiggle loose. My guess, or at least my hope, is that it’s not your couplers driving you nuts. I’m not sure what would cause that, but if that’s indeed what’s making the noise and it’s happening with annoying frequency I’d talk to your frame builder. Noise means friction, and that’s a concern.

A loaded down frame and/or hard riding would logically put stress on the couplers. So with the travel bikes we’ve just made it part of our pre-ride ABCD routine (A=air, B=brakes, C=couplers, D=drivetrain) to check the tightness and occasionally re-check if we’re out for multiple days. Only one time that I recall, mine started to loosen after a couple days, an odd noise is what alerted me, and I just tightened it up with my S&S spanner wrench. Obviously it’s a danger if it comes apart!

For maintenance, I did buy the high-fluo-crazy-expensive grease. I’ve only applied it once or twice, and sparingly; at this rate I suspect that one tube will last me the life of the bike. And I only close the couplers hand-tight, I don’t really torque down on them for fear of stripping the threads.

Noises suck! I hope you can hunt them down.

[hozn]

@ginacico 162044 wrote:

My coupler frame makes no noise at all, it behaves exactly like a solid steel frame. It has not had a tendency to wiggle loose. My guess, or at least my hope, is that it’s not your couplers driving you nuts. I’m not sure what would cause that, but if that’s indeed what’s making the noise and it’s happening with annoying frequency I’d talk to your frame builder. Noise means friction, and that’s a concern.

A loaded down frame and/or hard riding would logically put stress on the couplers. So with the travel bikes we’ve just made it part of our pre-ride ABCD routine (A=air, B=brakes, C=couplers, D=drivetrain) to check the tightness and occasionally re-check if we’re out for multiple days. Only one time that I recall, mine started to loosen after a couple days, an odd noise is what alerted me, and I just tightened it up with my S&S spanner wrench. Obviously it’s a danger if it comes apart!

For maintenance, I did buy the high-fluo-crazy-expensive grease. I’ve only applied it once or twice, and sparingly; at this rate I suspect that one tube will last me the life of the bike. And I only close the couplers hand-tight, I don’t really torque down on them for fear of stripping the threads.

Noises suck! I hope you can hunt them down.

Thanks, gina. Yeah, I haven’t spent any more time playing with this. I did order an S&S tool, as the one that I have looks a bit homemade and slips easily (I don’t really want to add any more scratches to my couplers). So I will take it apart, make sure it’s all cleaned out and then retighten it once I get that tool. Since it has been quiet for the most part, I’m fairly confident I can get it that way again. But needing to service it with any regularity would certainly be an annoyance.

I’m glad that yours doesn’t make any noise and that additional care & feeding isn’t something people just accept as part of riding a coupler frame.

This might well prove to be a case where maybe the prudent thing would have been to let the actual experts do the S&S part and let Waltly stick to the frame construction. (The couplers themselves were not significantly cheaper from Waltly. If S&S were less restrictive in how they sell their couplers, I would have strongly considered just buying some and sending them to Waltly for the build). It’s a bit crazy that Waltly custom fabricates the couplers for every frame; I imagine this takes some pretty specialized tooling to get things within tight tolerances. I also suspect they don’t do that many of these frames compared to their standard business. Anyway, I’m happy to ride and race on the frame now (I’m doing Hilly Billy Roubaix on it this weekend!) and I assume it’ll travel great. I’m hopeful that with a bit more attention to detail on cleaning out the couplers, applying the correct grease, etc. I can quiet any noises more permanently. (I might try anomad’s suggestion of using assembly paste, but probably would just do that on the notched coupler interface and not on the threads).

[dkel]

My first wheel build!

[ATTACH=CONFIG]15037[/ATTACH]

2-speed kick shift hub. Works great! I actually took the wheel by Bikenetic to have them check that I had the spokes tensioned enough, and to my surprise, I had it dead on and very even across the wheel. Both Jan and Brian said, “you’re hired!” Which I take as a high compliment!

So, what should I do next…?

[Steve O]

@dkel 162104 wrote:

So, what should I do next…?

Um…ride it?

[Judd]

@Steve O 162105 wrote:

Um…ride it?

Wrong… Drop it off at my house for a couple of weeks for a safety inspection.

[dkel]

Sigh! I mean what project should I undertake next? Anyone need a wheel built?

[hozn]

@dkel 162107 wrote:

Sigh! I mean what project should I undertake next? Anyone need a wheel built?

I want to learn more about the wheel build! Did you use tone/sound or a tensionometer/deflection gauge?

[dkel]

@hozn 162113 wrote:

I want to learn more about the wheel build! Did you use tone/sound or a tensionometer/deflection gauge?

First, I bought the Roger Musson book you recommended, which is great. I followed his advice for everything regarding the process. When it came time for final tensioning, I got it to where I thought it should be, then compared it to other wheels at my house; I found by listening to the tone of the spokes and by squeezing some pairs that I had a way to go before the wheel was tensioned enough. So I did more work and compared again, and found it was pretty similar to other wheels; that’s when I took it to Bikenetic for a second opinion. They used a tension gauge and said I was right on. Equalizing tension on the spokes throughout the process made the job pretty easy, as did going slowly and incrementally with the whole process. This was an easy build, though, because the rim was drilled symmetrically and the hub didn’t require an asymmetrical dish, so I only needed one spoke length for the whole wheel. The only thing I messed up was that I got distracted when figuring out how to align the hub label with the valve stem: I got it figured out, but then was so focused on holding the rim and the hub while manipulating the spokes, I just forgot to pay attention to what I had planned to do to get it lined up. I didn’t realize till the whole thing was laced that I had ignored my plan and gotten the label off to one side. That’s just a cosmetic thing, though, and the machine-built wheel on the front of the bike isn’t lined up either, so I guess it matches. :rolleyes: It was fun to do, and I’d welcome an opportunity to go again.

[Author]

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