YAA (yet another accident) at Lynn?

[Brendan von Buckingham]

I went through about 8:30. Didn’t see it happen. He was sitting up on the NE corner sidewalk with a bunch of people attending to him. He was in civies and looked like he was in pain. Knee injury makes sense, but I wouldn’t discount broken leg.

[Rootchopper]

I’ve been commuting into Rosslyn now for a little over a year. The frequency of accidents at the Lynn/Lee intersection seems to be about one per month. Would it kill Arlington to place a police officer there at rush hour until the whole thnig can be redesigned?

Also, 2 blocks away, I watched in amazement as two drivers blew through a red light to make a right on Lynn Street. They did slow a bit, just rolled right through. A cyclists turning onto Lynn from the opposite direction was nearly hit by one of the cars.

[OutsideTheLaw]

“Also, 2 blocks away, I watched in amazement as two drivers blew through a red light to make a right on Lynn Street. They did slow a bit, just rolled right through. A cyclists turning onto Lynn from the opposite direction was nearly hit by one of the cars.”

I assume the writer means at Lynn and Wilson? My experience there is that the westbound traffic on Wilson (coming from the Artisphere/Route 110 areas) routinely run the red or glide through making the right onto northbound Lynn, and that cyclists making the left off east bound Wilson in order to head towards Key Bridge need to be extremely deferential to those cars. It’s not as bad as the Corner of Doom at Lee/Lynn, but it’s treacherous. Funny part is that there are frequently cops there looking for people who run the light northbound on Lynn (coming from the Route 50 area, heading towards Key Bridge), but cars seem unimpressed by that.

[Tim Kelley]

@Rootchopper 33503 wrote:

Would it kill Arlington to place a police officer there at rush hour until the whole thnig can be redesigned?

I encourage you to contact your elected officials and the ACPD to share your opinion!

[pfunkallstar]

Weird, I must have rolled through there right before this happened. Maybe I fell into another temporal distortion field again – DAMN YOU PHYSICS. In other news, can we get this fixed? Seriously just put in a freaking ski lift starting from the crossing up Rosslyn Hill and charge a nickle for each axle.

[baiskeli]

The intersection is being redesigned. In the meantime:

Driving a car there? Be very very careful turning right on red (or green) from the south to the bridge.

Riding a bike there? Don’t cross except on a green hand (not the countdowns) and make eye contact with drivers turning right coming from the south.

[vvill]

@baiskeli 33510 wrote:

make eye contact with drivers turning right coming from the south.

I second this. I end up treating this intersection almost like there’s no light at all, and that drivers are giving way to you even though you are crossing on a green pedestrian light.

Some days I’ll head along M St a bit so I can be on the other side of Key Bridge and avoid this and the next crossing.

[consularrider]

@baiskeli 33510 wrote:

The intersection is being redesigned. In the meantime:

Driving a car there? Be very very careful turning right on red (or green) from the south to the bridge.

Riding a bike there? Don’t cross except on a green hand (not the countdowns) and make eye contact with drivers turning right coming from the south.

Sorry, the green hand lasts all of 15 seconds while the flashing hand is 25 seconds and the solid hand is about another 30 seconds. Something isn’t right here if you think everyone except a car needs to just sit at the intersection like that. It takes most cyclists less than five seconds to cross the street and a runner less than 10.

[Rootchopper]

@OutsideTheLaw 33506 wrote:

“Also, 2 blocks away, I watched in amazement as two drivers blew through a red light to make a right on Lynn Street. They did slow a bit, just rolled right through. A cyclists turning onto Lynn from the opposite direction was nearly hit by one of the cars.”

I assume the writer means at Lynn and Wilson? My experience there is that the westbound traffic on Wilson (coming from the Artisphere/Route 110 areas) routinely run the red or glide through making the right onto northbound Lynn, and that cyclists making the left off east bound Wilson in order to head towards Key Bridge need to be extremely deferential to those cars. It’s not as bad as the Corner of Doom at Lee/Lynn, but it’s treacherous. Funny part is that there are frequently cops there looking for people who run the light northbound on Lynn (coming from the Route 50 area, heading towards Key Bridge), but cars seem unimpressed by that.

I was at 19th and Lynn, but I am familiar with the police often stationed at Wilson and Lynn.

Wilson, 19th or the off ramp from I66 all have the same problem, impatient drivers turning right on red without stopping.

[baiskeli]

@consularrider 33517 wrote:

Sorry, the green hand lasts all of 15 seconds while the flashing hand is 25 seconds and the solid hand is about another 30 seconds. Something isn’t right here if you think everyone except a car needs to just sit at the intersection like that. It takes most cyclists less than five seconds to cross the street and a runner less than 10.

Right – 15 seconds is more than five seconds. That’s plenty of time to cross for a bike. And it’s fine to continue to cross during the red flashing hand, just don’t start to cross.

I’m just saying don’t start to cross during the flash. That’s not only illegal (which could matter if you’re in an accident and want to avoid a ticket and/or sue someone), it’s cutting it close to the time that cars will get their green light. And I believe it’s when cars going parallel get the green, including those that want to turn right on red onto the bridge. At that point, a car may not see you if you’re not already in front of them in the intersection. Best not to speed right into their path.

There’s plenty of time for bikes to cross on the green only at that intersection.

[mstone]

This makes a lot of sense. So much so that I propose likewise giving cars only 15 seconds, followed by a two minute period while the intersection is red in all directions. One to five cars can continue after the red (as usual). This will cut down on the number of accidents at intersections, and I look forward to seeing VDOT implement it immediately.

[baiskeli]

@mstone 33522 wrote:

This makes a lot of sense. So much so that I propose likewise giving cars only 15 seconds, followed by a two minute period while the intersection is red in all directions. One to five cars can continue after the red (as usual). This will cut down on the number of accidents at intersections, and I look forward to seeing VDOT implement it immediately.

If you think the lights are time wrong, fine. It’s not an excuse for running red lights. That’s not only illegal, it’s unwise.

There’s plenty of time for a bike to get through that intersection. Bikes probably wait about the same time that cars do to get through.

Try it – just stop when the green walk signal turns to flashing red numbers (unless you’re already crossing). It’s no big deal. It’s a nice little rest.

I think we cyclists make two big mistakes that cause us to do unwise things. First, we think like we’re driving a car. Second, we let the absolutely awesome feeling of going fast in the wind on a bike, and the feeling of momentum, override our judgement. It feels really good to go fast, and speed through that intersection just in time. It’s like being a kid again. But, just like in a car, the adult needs to take over sometimes and play it safe.

[mstone]

There’s no problem with the timing. When the crosswalk light is blinking you get just as much protection from the light cycle as you do when it’s solid white. Many places have already updated the code to reflect the wonders of countdown signals, and the fact that virginia hasn’t is a bug rather than a feature. If you want to stand on the curb while it’s safe to cross, go for it. But insisting that bikes should always wait unless they show up during the few seconds out of a multi-minute cycle that the signal is solid white makes no more sense than insisting that only cars that were waiting at the light should proceed during the green and that others should sit and wait for the next green “because it’s not a big deal”.

[baiskeli]

@mstone 33534 wrote:

There’s no problem with the timing. When the crosswalk light is blinking you get just as much protection from the light cycle as you do when it’s solid white.

I’m not so sure about that in that intersection. I think the parallel street (Lee) gets a green in the middle of it, enabling right turn on red from the south. But I can’t see for sure, so I’ll have to go to the other side and watch some time.

Legally, though, you’re not supposed to begin to cross against the red hand.

Many places have already updated the code to reflect the wonders of countdown signals, and the fact that virginia hasn’t is a bug rather than a feature. If you want to stand on the curb while it’s safe to cross, go for it. But insisting that bikes should always wait unless they show up during the few seconds out of a multi-minute cycle that the signal is solid white makes no more sense than insisting that only cars that were waiting at the light should proceed during the green and that others should sit and wait for the next green “because it’s not a big deal”.

I didn’t insist. I’m just saying that I don’t insist on getting my leg broken, or worse, over a few seconds. And that makes sense, since it’s basically what we ask cars to do for our safety too. Yes, I do think cars that don’t make it through a green should wait for the next green, don’t you?

Just try it some time. See how it works out. Instead of a mad dash to cross, you’re waiting for a nice easy crossing. It’s one of the most dangerous intersections for bikes around. I think it’s worth a little extra time.

[DismalScientist]

I think the big problem here is that it is inherently dangerous to use a crosswalk when bicycling at a reasonable speed. Drivers are expecting pedestrians to cross at a walking speed and when approaching an intersection, a driver will see the pedestrian at the curb or already crossing. With the sidewalk being a bike path, drivers need to look both far forward and potentially behind their right shoulder to check for cyclists (and runners) traveling at a greater than walking speed. By the time they look forward to begin to make the turn, a cyclist can move a great distance.

I think its more important to establish eye contract than worry whether the countdown is activated, as this problem occurs during either part of the walk cycle.

Right hooks are more likely when cyclists are on the sidewalk as drivers do not necessarily have the visual cue of passing the cyclist before turning right. Furthermore, a Lee and Lynn, the westbound Custis trail emerges from behind a fence.

[Author]

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