WTB Civia Bryant

[Harry Meatmotor]

@Starbuck the Delivery Man 99620 wrote:

If anyone out there can chime in, since I am still confused as to what causes the compatibility issues. What makes the versa vrs-8 shifter/brakes so special that they can work with this hub and belt drive? From doing some quick searching on them, they dont appear to be the best product out there, but somehow magically work with this belt/drop bar/igh/disc brake setup.

The versa shifters are designed to be compatible with shimano’s IGHs – when you actuate the shift lever, they pull or release the correct amount of cable to shift the hub from one gear to another. you won’t be able to use the versa vrs-8 and vrs-11 shifters with a normal derailleur because they don’t pull or release the correct amount of cable for any style of cable actuated mechanical derailleur (that I’m aware of). now, there are other issues that pop up when running an IGH that deal more with the dropouts used on a frame and how the dropouts accommodate both the chain/belt tension and the disc brake caliper mounting, but typically, if the dropouts are slotted (even just a little) you’ll be able to get everything to work. IGHs require slotted dropouts because the axle has flats and a set of lock washers that keep the axle from rotating in the frame. There’s also clearance issues that depend on the dropout style which pop up because there’s a plate that attaches to the axle on IGHs that guide the shifter cable and include a cable stop. In a word, it’s complicated.

Edit: it looks like shimano has come out with lock washers for vertical (QR style) dropouts – so the trick then becomes getting the correct angled washer so that the cassette joint unit sits properly in relation to the hub and the frame.

[DismalScientist]

@Starbuck the Delivery Man 99620 wrote:

If anyone out there can chime in, since I am still confused as to what causes the compatibility issues.

The Bryant’s bar are made of a special aluminum alloy that is compatible with the Versa shifters. That alloy is designed so that the bars are maintenance-free.:rolleyes:

If I am not mistaken, the cable pull between cogs is set with a “detent” washer in the housing that holds the lever. Is there some reason that Shimano has not designed these washers specifically for the Affine and Nexus IGHs? It would seem to be an easy way for Shimano to expand its product offering with little engineering investment. Is there a similar mechanism in a brifter that can be easily substituted?

[kingman762]

So, as an actual Bryant owner, I guess I’ll add my voice to the discussion…

First, on the Versa Brifters.. you can’t use standard brifters because the cable pull is different. You’d need to use the Versa Brifters (which are ok… but not great) or the JTek bar end shifter (which I have not tried).

Second, there have been a couple comments on the carbon drive, questioning its utility. Personally, I no longer use the carbon drive on mine for a couple reasons. Primarily it was a pain to get properly tensioned and was often very creaky. Also, I think a lot of the bryants may have an older version of the carbon drive with weaker cogs. I spun two cogs with that system before I gave up on the carbon drive. Both broke at 1,000 miles, the little nubs that hold the cog in place wore off and they spun. Gates was good enough to send me replacements both times (progressivly newer versions) but I gave up in the end.

Third, the alifine was also good, but not great. I found it that it felt very inefficient (whether it was as inefficient as it felt I don’t know). It was low maintinance, but not maintinance free there was still cable strech that had to be dealt with.

Lastly, the civia crankset broke last week. Catostropic crankset failure (though I don’t hold that against the bike).

So at this point I’m riding a Bryant that’s set up as a chain driven singlespeed. I personnally like it better that way. It’s a good bike and comfortable but not amazing. But perhaps I’ve had a run of bad luck with the drive train on mine.

[Harry Meatmotor]

@DismalScientist 99631 wrote:

The Bryant’s bar are made of a special aluminum alloy that is compatible with the Versa shifters. That alloy is designed so that the bars are maintenance-free.:rolleyes:

If I am not mistaken, the cable pull between cogs is set with a “detent” washer in the housing that holds the lever. Is there some reason that Shimano has not designed these washers specifically for the Affine and Nexus IGHs? It would seem to be an easy way for Shimano to expand its product offering with little engineering investment. Is there a similar mechanism in a brifter that can be easily substituted?

there’s a whole heck of a lot more going on in an STI style lever than just a single detent washer to determine cable pull, it’s a mix of barrel diameter and ratchet teeth that determine how much cable is pulled for each gear. And to my knowledge the only dropbar shifters that would allow you to change the detents were older Campy 8-9-10 speed shifters (and that’s only for mechanical rear derailleurs). I know I said it before, but if it were me, i’d drop the coin for the Di2 setup in a heartbeat if I wanted to go IGH – and especially IGH and disc. If it’s not apparent by now, going IGH is a bit fussy, and you have some frame standards fighting themselves to complicate things further.

[americancyclo]

@Starbuck the Delivery Man 99500 wrote:

it is one of the few non custom bikes that can run drop bars with a belt, igh, and disc brakes. I talked to a few shops and no one could make that combination work without expensive custom built frames.

Are you really sold on the belt idea? Some folks run the IGH with a chain. Although I guess that just opens you up to more frame options, without addressing the brifter issue.

@Harry Meatmotor 99646 wrote:

if it were me, i’d drop the coin for the Di2 setup in a heartbeat if I wanted to go IGH – and especially IGH and disc.

What’s that groupo run? Hub, Motor, Shifter, Cables, ???

[Harry Meatmotor]

@americancyclo 99653 wrote:

What’s that groupo run? Hub, Motor, Shifter, Cables, ???

Note – these are all MSRP:

Hub: $499.99
LHand Shifter: $89.99
RHand Shifter: $189.99
Motor: $129.99
E-Tube Display Unit: $99.99
Various little bits and pieces: ~$100

So figure about $1000 retail.

[hozn]

Those prices aren’t for the di2/hydro brifters, though, right? (I forget the model number, but remember those being pricey last I looked.)

[Harry Meatmotor]

@hozn 99666 wrote:

Those prices aren’t for the di2/hydro brifters, though, right? (I forget the model number, but remember those being pricey last I looked.)

I don’t think shimano is actually branding any di2/hydro shifters with Alfine – but some bike builders were showing bikes with the st-r785 levers/calipers running an alfine hub out back. I think pricing on those levers/calipers/rotors was somewhere around $700/pr. I’d be okay with cable actuated discs and some TRP Spyres and forgoe the hydro, imho. bleeding those levers is a pain, too. and again, you start to run into frame standards running amok, i.e., Di2 drilled frames usually run internal brake cables, too, which means breaking hoses and rebleeding to install the levers or the calipers.

[hozn]

Ah, OK. Good to know. Yeah, I love my Spyre calipers — especially paired with Avid HSX rotors. So a “regular” (Ultegra) Di2, should work as an alternative with Alfine11? (Since OP wanted to use brifters.)

Edit: obviously the left shifter wouldn’t do anything, though …

Edit2: I was looking at the wrong Alfine groupset. I see the di2 version does come with a brifter already.

[hozn]

And this might have been linked earlier, but here’s a [chain] alfine di2 disc build: http://www.joe-bike.com/bikes/commuter-bikes/norco-indie-drop-alfine-di2/

[kingman762]

Based on the research I did when the Alfine Di2 was annonced I don’t think you can run Di2 with a belt drive. At least without a specially machined carbon drive cog.

This conversation rreminded me of the coolest aline/best bike I’ve seen. This guys works inmy building, its a really great looking ride: http://www.englishcycles.com/custombikes/julians-winter-bike/

[Harry Meatmotor]

looks like you’re right:

http://www.bikerumor.com/2013/01/25/ventana-29er-hacked-with-gates-belt-drive-shimano-alfine-di2/

10lbs of stuff in a 5lb bag. I’d be worried that screwing around with the seals on that hub too much would undo all the progress shimano has made in keeping the oil inside the hub – they used to leak like a sieve…

[Powerful Pete]

@kingman762 99690 wrote:

Based on the research I did when the Alfine Di2 was annonced I don’t think you can run Di2 with a belt drive. At least without a specially machined carbon drive cog.

This conversation rreminded me of the coolest aline/best bike I’ve seen. This guys works inmy building, its a really great looking ride: http://www.englishcycles.com/custombikes/julians-winter-bike/

Oh my that is a nice bike. Must. Stop. Checking. Website. And. Listing. Reasons. To. Convince. Wife. To. Allow. Purchase.

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