Women & Negative Interaction on the Trails

[Guus]

That’s awful, and that interaction today seems creepy enough to tell the police about. The Arlington police non-emergency number is (703) 741-3035. I would really urge your friend to call and get this recorded.

[Tania]

I’ve never met your girlfriend and I don’t need to meet her to KNOW unequivocally that she is NOT giving off a vibe and that none of this is her fault. Men can be creepy. That’s all I can say without dragging out my soapbox and losing my stuffing.

[consularrider]

@Guus 138151 wrote:

That’s awful, and that interaction today seems creepy enough to tell the police about. The Arlington police non-emergency number is (703) 741-3035. I would really urge your friend to call and get this recorded.

This. While generally the 4MT and W&OD are safe, the Barcroft and Carlin Springs sections are where there have been a few problems.

[Anonymous]

Yeah, it is not something she’s doing. It’s creeps being assholes to a woman alone.

It’s comparatively rare that it happens to me while on the bike but it does happen. Jogging in my experience is much worse. I don’t know if it’s just that moving slower makes you an easier target, or what, but when I jogged more regularly, I more or less expected to be catcalled (or honked at when along a street) pretty much any time I went out, at least more often than not. Yes, I’ve had men follow me when I’m out jogging or walking alone. Based on your description I probably would have handled it the same way she did.

[LaurelHillRider]

I can tell you with certainty it’s not her. It’s them. I lived along the W&OD and Custis for years and – without fail – any day that I was alone on the trail I would get catcalled, followed, propositioned, or generally creeped upon by at least one person. And here’s the thing: I’m a fat woman who wears comfortable clothing: large t-shirts with either bike shorts or yoga pants. I don’t make an effort to look attractive to others, so it’s not like I was wearing “inviting clothing” or something. Over the years, I tried all kinds of different approaches to head off these kinds of interactions — look friendly, look unfriendly. Have a small smile, have a scowl. Make eye contact, don’t make eye contact. Make verbal interaction first, completely ignore verbally.

It didn’t matter. Some percentage of guys see a woman alone on the trail and that’s it; they’re gonna either try to dominate her, intimidate her, or objectify her, some in small ways, like just a creepy comment as she passes. Some in more menacing ways, like following a woman, or jogging alongside her and refusing to leave her alone. Small opportunities to assert dominance, maybe? I don’t know. But it’s not her clothing or her demeanor. It’s just that she’s a woman and she’s alone.

The bike helps. The speed offers some element of protection for whatever reason.

Thanks for NOT being one of those guys. You can help by shutting this shit down if you see a buddy or someone else do it. Even without escalating into violence, these pervasive aggressions add up over time and make women restrict their movement and activities. It sucks. Thanks for doing what you can to shut it down and make it as socially unacceptable as it should be.

[Emm]

Rarer on a bike than jogging, but it occurs so I doubt it’s anything she’s doing. I generally dress fairly conservatively when I’m on a bike which sometimes helps keep the looks down from guys, but that’s to keep bees out of my shirt/sports bra, not due to men. But every year I have 3-4 uncomfortable interactions, 1-2 which are escalate to the point I’m scared. Last year I got flashed by a guy and chased by another, the year before I got some pretty nasty sexual things yelled at me a few times. I got away in every case, but I was always really shaken up. None of this every happens if I’m riding with my husband or near another man.

Jogging is worse in my experience. At least on a bike you can get away fast–jogging is tougher since you can’t escape so quick. When I go out for a jog I either keep my dog with me since although small, he has a nasty growl, or I stick to very public places in my neighborhood, and stay away from isolated sections of trails. It’s sad women have to do things like this to stay safe, but it’s the reality.

[jabberwocky]

This thread makes me sad.

As a small consolation, I did witness a guy on a road bike crash while turning to ogle a woman jogger on the W&OD several years ago. Occasionally karma does its thing.

[dasgeh]

@jabberwocky 138170 wrote:

This thread makes me sad.

I would imagine this thread is not at all surprising to the women here (and I second, third, fifth, all of their comments – I’ve been oogled and harrassed. It’s not her, it’s them). This is the reality we live, and it’s the reality your mothers, aunts, grandmas, sisters, wives, girlfriends, woman friends, nieces and daughters live.

If you’re a guy, please think of this when things get all “locker-room humor” among the guys. This culture of male-dominance isn’t going away until everyone – including guys – are willing to stand up to it.

[dasgeh]

@jabberwocky 138170 wrote:

This thread makes me sad.

I would imagine this thread is not at all surprising to the women here (and I second, third, fifth, all of their comments – I’ve been oogled and harrassed. It’s not her, it’s them). This is the reality we live, and it’s the reality your mothers, aunts, grandmas, sisters, wives, girlfriends, woman friends, nieces and daughters live.

If you’re a guy, please think of this when things get all “locker-room humor” among the guys. This culture of male-dominance isn’t going away until everyone – including guys – are willing to stand up to it.

[bentbike33]

In the spirit of helping everyone enjoy the trails as much as I do, I have a question related to this topic.

I like to ride fast, but also try to be PAL and not make stupid passes. This means I will catch up to other riders (and, of course, joggers/peds) and may need to linger behind them at their speed until trail conditions allow for a safe pass. It is generally fairly obvious to joggers/peds why I am doing this (e.g., much oncoming trail traffic, closely approaching a blind curve) and these instances tend to last for shorter times/distances anyway. With cyclists, it often lasts longer, and some riders frequently look back seemingly nervously (although I honestly can’t say that I’ve noticed women doing this more than men). I follow at a reasonable distance, but generally only say something, or ring the bell, when all looks clear and I am actually going to pass. When faster riders act in this way to me, I am totally comfortable and grateful for it.

Anything I can do to make people more comfortable without being misconstrued?

[bobco85]

IME riding through Barcroft Park and along the W&OD/4MR through that area, I occasionally see people loitering who seem to have nothing better to do. After looking at the Arlington crime map http://spotcrime.com/va/arlington it appears that there are numerous cases of suspicious people and/or drunkenness in Barcroft Park. There are also multiple reports of sexual assault and rape that have occurred along 4MR which is more woody and is easier for criminals to hide in than the wide open W&OD.

Increased police presence would help but would not eliminate the potential for stalking, sexual assault, and/or rape. For the time being, I would recommend carrying defensive tools like pepper spray and reporting any and all people acting suspiciously. I think even an educational campaign like WMATA’s anti-harrassment campaign could help like shown here http://www.wmata.com/about_metro/news/PressReleaseDetail.cfm?ReleaseID=5887 .

There are still many varied cultural attitudes about how men should act around women especially in how they show their interest and what is acceptable; changing those attitudes is the biggest challenge. I think most active users of this forum would be in agreement that catcalling, stalking, or generally making women uncomfortable on the trails is completely unacceptable behavior, but we don’t represent society in general.

[jabberwocky]

@dasgeh 138171 wrote:

I would imagine this thread is not at all surprising to the women here (and I second, third, fifth, all of their comments – I’ve been oogled and harrassed. It’s not her, it’s them). This is the reality we live, and it’s the reality your mothers, aunts, grandmas, sisters, wives, girlfriends, woman friends, nieces and daughters live.

I know. I’m not sad because its at all surprising (its unfortunately not). Its just aggravating that its true. I used to lead mountain bike rides for MORE and occasionally would have issues where a woman showed up and a few guys on the ride would hang around them and clearly make them uncomfortable (and yeah, I talked to the guys, or when that didn’t help, ask the creepers to take the front for a while to get them out of their hair). It annoyed me as the ride leader when it happened, but I’m sure its much, much worse for a woman who has to deal with it all the time.

@bentbike33 138173 wrote:

Anything I can do to make people more comfortable without being misconstrued?

Honestly, just pass as soon as possible. I’ve been guilty of inadvertently making a solo woman uncomfortable commuting before. Sometimes you just end up going about the same speed as someone on an empty section of trail. I didn’t think anything of it until a female friend pointed out that it can be disconcerting when an unknown guy is following you, and I’ve tried to be more cognizant of that since then.

[Tim Kelley]

@bentbike33 138173 wrote:

With cyclists, it often lasts longer, and some riders frequently look back seemingly nervously

I’ve noticed that a loud freehub body coasting seems to make this worse!

[rcannon100]

@Tim Kelley 138177 wrote:

I’ve noticed that a loud freehub body coasting seems to make this worse!

The loud sound of a freehub coasting makes everything worse! I’m not naming any names.

[Tania]

@bentbike33 138173 wrote:

Anything I can do to make people more comfortable without being misconstrued?

Yes. Say “I’m going to pass you as soon as it’s clear” especially if they turn around to see who’s back there. It’s almost always obvious that’s your intent but you’ll probably get a wave and a thanks in return.

[Author]

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