Woman Hit by Cyclist on Four Mile Run

[mstone]

@jnva 22984 wrote:

It’s not all about biking. This is a cycling forum, so what was I thinking posting an anti-cycling opinion? Must be crazy. It’s not all about simply obeying the rules. An 80 year old woman dies, oh well she wasn’t obeying the rules. A toddler gets run over – he shouldn’t have been there. This is what I am hearing from a lot of folks here. I hope that if I hit and kill someone on the trail that you all will stand up for me in the same way!

Assuming you’re not just trolling, what you’re missing is that a lot of the criticism comes from the fact that we simply do not know all the facts of the case, and any pronouncements about what did or did not cause the accident or who is responsible have no basis in fact. I don’t think I’ve seen anyone suggest that the cyclist can’t be the one responsible, what I’ve mostly seen is people refuse to accept that, in the absence of facts, it should be assumed that the cyclist has to have been responsible.

[jnva]

@jabberwocky 22991 wrote:

I think characterizing this as blind pro-cycling bias is also silly. See the “reckless cyclist charged with manslaughter” thread and you’ll see nobody defending the cyclist when they are being willfully reckless.

You seem to be taking this as people saying the cyclist is never at fault, which is untrue. If the cyclist was the one not obeying the rules (passing where there isn’t room and hitting someone, for example) I think most (if not all) folks here would be condemning them. I certainly would be. Its just that in this situation, the pedestrian was the one who didn’t behave correctly.

What I’ve been saying is that on the Arlington MUP’s, having seen accidents happen right in front if me, I do think it’s always the cyclists fault. I see no reason to think otherwise in this case. I also am not comparing accidents on roads and accidents on MUP’s. Two very different things. I always assumed that bikes had to watch out for pedestrians no matter what on the mup. There are lots of signs that give me that impression.

Obviously I am alone and nobody shares the same opinion, but hopefully this discussion makes people think twice about passing elderly people walking on the trail. Maybe slow down more and try to be extra cautious.

[mstone]

@jnva 23029 wrote:

What I’ve been saying is that on the Arlington MUP’s, having seen accidents happen right in front if me, I do think it’s always the cyclists fault. I see no reason to think otherwise in this case. I also am not comparing accidents on roads and accidents on MUP’s. Two very different things. I always assumed that bikes had to watch out for pedestrians no matter what on the mup. There are lots of signs that give me that impression.

Obviously I am alone and nobody shares the same opinion, but hopefully this discussion makes people think twice about passing elderly people walking on the trail. Maybe slow down more and try to be extra cautious.

There you go, continuing to make assumptions about what happened in a particular case that you didn’t see. If you want to talk generally about specific dangerous behaviors, fine. If you want to talk about particular incidents you have personal knowledge of, fine. (Though, frankly, anecdotes are boring and have replaced relevant statistical data in public discourse to an excessive degree.) What isn’t fine is to pontificate about a particular incident you don’t know anything as a springboard to making sweeping claims which ultimately result in no useful basis for discussion.

[jabberwocky]

@jnva 23029 wrote:

I also am not comparing accidents on roads and accidents on MUP’s. Two very different things.

Sure, roads and MUPs aren’t exactly the same, but the overall situation is similar (slower and faster users sharing the same space). So we must come up with guidelines so that everyone can share the resource safely. The main benefit of those rules is predictability ; i.e. users can reliably know what to expect of other users on the trail (whether passing/being passed, making turns, etc). Road or trail, conflicts arise when people start ignoring those rules. I ride to work every day on the roads, and I’m quite aware that if I do something random (switch lanes without looking, run a light, etc) I could very well get hit and injured or killed.

@jnva 23029 wrote:

I always assumed that bikes had to watch out for pedestrians no matter what on the mup. There are lots of signs that give me that impression.

I honestly don’t know where you are getting that impression. Pedestrians have right of way, but that doesn’t mean that they can do whatever the hell they want and its everyone elses job to avoid them. Everyone on the trail has obligations, pedestrians included.

@jnva 23029 wrote:

What I’ve been saying is that on the Arlington MUP’s, having seen accidents happen right in front if me, I do think it’s always the cyclists fault. I see no reason to think otherwise in this case.

Other than the fact the every news article and the police report indicates that the cyclist signaled his pass (using multiple methods!), moved left, and the lady then moved into his path?

@jnva 23029 wrote:

Obviously I am alone and nobody shares the same opinion, but hopefully this discussion makes people think twice about passing elderly people walking on the trail. Maybe slow down more and try to be extra cautious.

I can’t say I disagree, but I also hope this incident reminds pedestrians that they need to be predictable as well.

[jnva]

@mstone 23033 wrote:

What isn’t fine is to pontificate about a particular incident you don’t know anything as a springboard to making sweeping claims which ultimately result in no useful basis for discussion.

Am I breaking a forum rule? I think what I have been saying is perfectly fine. I am ok with all of you disagreeing with me, there’s nothing wrong with that. How do you get that animation of the dead horse? That was cool.

[DismalScientist]

@mstone 23033 wrote:

What isn’t fine is to pontificate about a particular incident you don’t know anything as a springboard to making sweeping claims which ultimately result in no useful basis for discussion.

If this were not allowed, we would have to get rid of half the internet, which would likely shut down because of lack of use.:rolleyes:

[rcannon100]

[ATTACH=CONFIG]1234[/ATTACH]

[vvill]

I like fried chicken. My wife likes fried chicken. My dad likes fried chicken. Having seen them all eat it so enthusiastically right in front if me, I do think every person in my family likes fried chicken. I see no reason to think otherwise in this case.

My brother actually doesn’t like fried chicken! :confused: WHAT THE?! 😮

Oh well, I think what I have been saying is perfectly fine. Warm today, isn’t it?

[dasgeh]

@vvill 23055 wrote:

Oh well, I think what I have been saying is perfectly fine.

You forgot that you always behave perfectly in every circumstance, every day, never having an lapses.

And you expect everyone else to be perfect 100% of the time too.

[jnva]

@dasgeh 23057 wrote:

You forgot that you always behave perfectly in every circumstance, every day, never having an lapses.

And you expect everyone else to be perfect 100% of the time too.

Was this directed at me or vvill?

[Brendan von Buckingham]

@jnva 23029 wrote:

I do think it’s always the cyclists fault.

And right there, that’s where you invalidated any worth you have in this discussion.

[americancyclo]

@vvill 23055 wrote:

I like fried chicken.

me too, particularly with waffles. do you know any good spots around here to get chicken and waffles?

[jnva]

@Brendan von Buckingham 23059 wrote:

And right there, that’s where you invalidated any worth you have in this discussion.

I conceded defeat in this discussion a couple pages ago, but it’s hard to stop replying when I am personally attacked. Don’t mean to troll, sorry.

[rcannon100]

I am a vegetarian. I think all people who eat dead birds are evil. Every time I have a drink with y’all I am secretly despising you. Only those people who enjoy tofurky for Thanksgiving are righteous. (But Vegans…. Vegans are just crazy).

[dasgeh]

@jnva 23011 wrote:

Also, I have come close to hitting people but never have, because I slow down enough to come to a stop. Within inches, but always able to stop. This incident, it seems to me could have been avoided.

You (jnva).

I only posted because I’ve seen your other posts. I don’t think you’re a troll. I certainly don’t want to personally attack you (and I agree others have leaned that way, which is sad). I had a glimmer of hope that if you saw your argument from another perspective (through the fried chicken lens), you’d realize what you were writing. It’s one thing to say “based on my experience, it’s really hard for me to believe the cyclist at fault.” It’s another thing to say “When a cyclist hits a pedestrian, the pedestrian is never at fault.”

This entire incident makes me sad. A woman lost her life. A man contributed to the death of a woman. We pray for both souls and both families. From what I know, neither was willfully trying to harm the other. The man has to live with the fact that either through his negligence, or through no fault of his own, he contributed to her death. That sucks. I just hate to see the guy vilified in a cycling forum on top of that. That’s the only reason I’m following this thread and posting now.

[Author]

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