Woman Hit by Cyclist on Four Mile Run

[Arlingtonrider]

I think peoples’ reaction to bells is worse when cyclists wait until they are too close to the pedestrian(s) before ringing them. I use mine further back just to let them know i’m there, and usually get no response (ok), a move slightly to the right or to going single file (better), or a brief wave or thank you (not unusual). Have never had anyone seem annoyed by it, but then again, I’m generally not riding real fast. People do seem to get more annoyed at cyclists who ride past them at high speeds.

[mstone]

@DOS 22719 wrote:

I dont use a bell and its not because I am “not logical” or because I “do not give a crap”. I also know alot of cyclists and do not believe that above post describes any of them. I can only speak for myself but when I did use a bell, it was generally received negatively — like I was telling folks to “get out of my way” as opposed to a warning I was approaching. I may start using one again (although having stopped using trails for most part, maybe not), but on the increasingly rare occasions when I find myself on trails or otherwise among pedestrians, I never get the kind of negative reaction (flipped birds and the like) to a spoken “passing on your left” that I used to get to a bell. I do take the point that a bell is more easily heard and less likley to result in a pedestrian turning into the oncoming bike in response, however. So perhaps the risk of aflipped bird in worth the trouble.

good grief, what were you doing with your bell?

[paytonc]

@mstone 22726 wrote:

good grief, what were you doing with your bell?

I have almost never gotten a *negative* reaction for ringing a bell, even when doing so very insistently. Plenty of people ignore it at first, but eventually get the message (and move to the side — either left or right — as appropriate).

The only negative reaction from a pedestrian I remember in the past year or so of near-daily riding in city streets and/or MVT is that once I was attempting to chide a driver (nearly right-hooked me in a bike lane) by ringing my bell. Some halfwit on the sidewalk, who apparently has a very different view of civility than I or most civilized people do, thought my gentle protestations were funny in an emasculating way and pointed and exaggeratedly har-de-har-har-ed. But the point is, he noticed the bell and registered that it was a bicycle, and that the bell was seen as timid rather than aggressive.

[rcannon100]

Agreed. I never get negative reactions from the bell. Frequently get positive reactions.

As said before, A big key is – ring the bell further back. If you are ringing it within 10 feet – yip, you are going to startle people. Try ringing your bell – or calling your pass – 50 feet back. That gives you plenty of time to take evasive action if you get a squirrel response.

Bell Good.

[jnva]

wrote:

That gives you plenty of time to take evasive action if you get a squirrel response.
Bell Good.

Squirrel response is a good analogy! I like it… But what puzzles me about this particular incident is that I can’t see a 70 year old woman reacting like a squirrel. It sounds like she just turned around, not dashing in front of the cyclist.

[MCL1981]

Ringing a bell when you’re only a second or two away is just as useless and rude as as saying “on your left” while you’re passing someone. Too little, too late. I always try to give 2 to 3 dings as my distance closes. It gives reaction time. And for those intuitive folks that can put 2 + 2 together, the three rings get louder and louder indicating I am getting closer and closer. I can’t expect everyone to make that connection, but I’m sure some people find it useful.

[DOS]

@mstone 22726 wrote:

good grief, what were you doing with your bell?

What can I say; 1 ring. Thats it. Birds and/or F*** yous a few times. Decided bell not worth it. I dont why that should be such a surprise. As this and other threads like it invariably show, there is a lot of animosity towards cyclists. Seems totally consistent reaction from a crowd that think all cyclists are arrogant or “do not give a crap”.

Edited to add: In response to earlier post about ringing late or speed being the source of negative reaction, trails make me nervous so when I used them, I always rode pretty slow. That said, on at least two occasions, I will admit that the ped who reacted negatively was clearly surprised and startled by the bell. Now, had they not been wearing ear buds…

[dasgeh]

I get lots of negative reactions from tourists and joggers in the tourist-heavy areas, both to bells and to called passes. I think lots of people are from places where cycling just isn’t normal, and lots of people think they “own” the sidewalk, and we have no right to be there. (Most of my experience is from the area around the Lincoln, where there is no “on street” alternative, and there are LOTS of out of towners).

Also, there are lots of situations where dinging or calling passes further back is futile because of highway noise, airplane noise, earbuds, etc.

All that said, I still try to call all my passes, and I think it’s the right thing for all of us to do. I don’t have bells on all the bikes I ride, but I ding when I have them. I don’t think we should hide behind the excuses, but I also don’t think that the people who don’t behave like me are bad people, or completely unreasonable, for doing so.

[baiskeli]

@dasgeh 22793 wrote:

I get lots of negative reactions from tourists and joggers in the tourist-heavy areas, both to bells and to called passes. I think lots of people are from places where cycling just isn’t normal, and lots of people think they “own” the sidewalk, and we have no right to be there. (Most of my experience is from the area around the Lincoln, where there is no “on street” alternative, and there are LOTS of out of towners).

Yeah, I heard some tourists react to my bell the other day. I had room to pass them, but I warned with my bell anyway, as I’m supposed to. I heard one say “that time we weren’t even in his way.” They seemed to think that bells and warnings are only for when they need to move, not just warnings that they are about to be passed. They think it’s like a car honking a horn at you.

I wonder if they ever figured it out.

[rcannon100]

Think of it this way. The first cyclists that passes a touron, they are going to respond like tourons. The second cyclist, it might occur to them that there is a pattern here. And if three people do it, three, can you imagine, three people walking in to Alice’s Restaurant and signalling their passes! They may think it’s an organization. And can you, can you imagine fifty people a day, I said fifty people a day walking in to Alice’s Restaurant and signalling their passes. And friends they may thinks it’s a movement.

Seriously. They may react like idiots to you – but by the third cyclists you may have saved an accident.

I have cleaned up after one of those tourists accidents. Lots of blood and a bent frame on a bicyclists who took a dive in order to evade a tourist who stepped left on the trail down near the cemetery.

Call often; call early – or like Dirt, just sing.

[creadinger]

@jnva 22734 wrote:

… But what puzzles me about this particular incident is that I can’t see a 70 year old woman reacting like a squirrel. It sounds like she just turned around, not dashing in front of the cyclist.

Fortunately, you opinion about what you think the woman did or did not do, and your leading questions about the cyclist’s behavior (guilty in your mind) will not factor into the accident reconstruction or any type of police report. You don’t KNOW anything more than other people here about what happened, yet you think you do.

[jnva]

@creadinger 22818 wrote:

Fortunately, you opinion about what you think the woman did or did not do, and your leading questions about the cyclist’s behavior (guilty in your mind) will not factor into the accident reconstruction or any type of police report. You don’t KNOW anything more than other people here about what happened, yet you think you do.

This is what I know. I don’t what I said that makes you think I am not stating anything but fact. The victim turned around moving into the path of the cyclist … That’s not my words…

(Updated at 9:25 a.m.) An 80-year-old woman has died after being hit by a bicyclist on the Four Mile Run Trail this morning.
The incident happened around 7:15 this morning (Monday) on the trail near the intersection of Columbia Pike and Four Mile Run Drive. According to police, an adult male cyclist was coming down a hill when he called out “on your left, on your left,” to the victim, who was walking on trail.
The victim turned around, moving into the path of the cyclist, and said “what? — at which time she and the cyclist collided, according to*Arlington County Police spokesman Dustin Sternbeck. The woman fell backwards and her head hit the pavement, causing significant trauma.

[pfunkallstar]

@rcannon100 22815 wrote:

Think of it this way. The first cyclists that passes a touron, they are going to respond like tourons. The second cyclist, it might occur to them that there is a pattern here. And if three people do it, three, can you imagine, three people walking in to Alice’s Restaurant and signalling their passes! They may think it’s an organization. And can you, can you imagine fifty people a day, I said fifty people a day walking in to Alice’s Restaurant and signalling their passes. And friends they may thinks it’s a movement.

Seriously. They may react like idiots to you – but by the third cyclists you may have saved an accident.

I have cleaned up after one of those tourists accidents. Lots of blood and a bent frame on a bicyclists who took a dive in order to evade a tourist who stepped left on the trail down near the cemetery.

Call often; call early – or like Dirt, just sing.

Singing La Bamba saved my ass yesterday just before the Lincoln Memorial – BSA Troop Minnesota needs to work on their orienteering skills – “Bill you got it wrong the Vietnam Memorial is down by the Smithsonian – were going the wrong way” (walking assertively towards me without looking, me – “No Bill’s right – it is right there.”

[creadinger]

I read the report. It is detailed and clearly shows a situation that was out of the cyclists control (not that he was out of control like the a-hole in CA). Maybe I’m being a little nit-picky, but your statements are a little less specific and imply guilt of the cyclist when this was just a tragic accident.

It sounds like she just turned around, not dashing in front of the cyclist.

You mean she turned around into the path of the cyclist right? The way you said it makes it sound like she stuck to the right side of the trail leaving plenty of room for him to pass while turning around, instead of veering to the left as the report states. And also below you indicate that you think the cyclist is at fault for passing her going too fast when you have no idea how fast he was actually going.

I have a hard time believing this 80 year old woman was ignoring the cyclists warnings. If you as a cyclist cannot stop in time to avoid hitting a pedestrian on a mup, then you are going too fast.

To me it sounds like he did everything the right way (ringing a bell and calling out twice), plus his age (60s) and choice of bike (mountain) also says to me he’s not a TdF wannabe who rides way too fast. Sometimes simple little things can turn tragic. End of story. Why did the woman veer to the left into his path? No one will ever know. Maybe she stepped on a small rock causing her to lose balance and she stepped to the left as she looked back. Whatever it was, all we can do is speculate which does nothing but indicate your own opinions and is what I believe you have done above.

[jnva]

@creadinger 22833 wrote:

I read the report. It is detailed and clearly shows a situation that was out of the cyclists control (not that he was out of control like the a-hole in CA). Maybe I’m being a little nit-picky, but your statements are a little less specific and imply guilt of the cyclist when this was just a tragic accident.

You mean she turned around into the path of the cyclist right? The way you said it makes it sound like she stuck to the right side of the trail leaving plenty of room for him to pass while turning around, instead of veering to the left as the report states. And also below you indicate that you think the cyclist is at fault for passing her going too fast when you have no idea how fast he was actually going.

To me it sounds like he did everything the right way (ringing a bell and calling out twice), plus his age (60s) and choice of bike (mountain) also says to me he’s not a TdF wannabe who rides way too fast. Sometimes simple little things can turn tragic. End of story. Why did the woman veer to the left into his path? No one will ever know. Maybe she stepped on a small rock causing her to lose balance and she stepped to the left as she looked back. Whatever it was, all we can do is speculate which does nothing but indicate your own opinions and is what I believe you have done above.

You just put more opinion in this one post than I have in all of mine combined ever on this forum! You can disagree with my opinion all you want, it won’t change the fact that the woman was the victim here. I am no noob to cycling and have lived in this area my entire life, so yes I have an opinion about use and misuse of the Mups.

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