Why do bottom brackets hate me?

[hozn]

@jrenaut 161506 wrote:

I blew up another one this morning. That’s two in two months (different bikes). Both happened when I was starting up on a green light and heard a loud crunch.

This one I took to the Bike Rack – I was only a few blocks away and didn’t want to deal with hauling the longtail to TwoWheels’ house to replace another BB.

Do you tolerate a lot of clicking/creaking noise in your bottom brackets? I have never had a BB fail on me, but I also can’t stand clicks, so I replace the bearings as soon as I start to hear them. (Which is normally around 5k miles in typical commute weather, but could be sooner if I’ve done some riding through streams or whatever.)

This was an other internal BB?

[jrenaut]

I’ve never heard BB clicking. Unless I’m hearing it and mistaking it for something else.

I’ll have to check – this might actually be the first BB change, and at 7400 miles, so probably expected.

[TwoWheelsDC]

@jrenaut 161511 wrote:

I’ve never heard BB clicking. Unless I’m hearing it and mistaking it for something else.

I’ll have to check – this might actually be the first BB change, and at 7400 miles, so probably expected.

Clicking=expected. Catastrophic spindle failure=not expected.

[hozn]

Yeah, I agree with TwoWheels. You should have many (maybe thousands) of miles of clicking before they just fall apart on you. At least, that would be my expectation.

[Judd]

Maybe if you weren’t such a wattage bazooka all the time, you wouldn’t be blowing up so many bottom brackets. I think you should reframe this from “Bottom Brackets Hate Me” to “I am become Death, destroyer of Bottom Brackets.”

[Mario20136]

@jrenaut 161506 wrote:

I blew up another one this morning. That’s two in two months (different bikes). Both happened when I was starting up on a green light and heard a loud crunch.

This one I took to the Bike Rack – I was only a few blocks away and didn’t want to deal with hauling the longtail to TwoWheels’ house to replace another BB.

I too have the same problem except I don’t seem to get around and pull my bottom bracket and apply some light oil or lubricant. I normally service my bottom bracket every 2k miles. It pays to service the bottom bracket or simply toss it out and replace it with a Shimano BB. The BB is not meant to be ridden forever.

[TwoWheelsDC]

Seems like an external bearing BB would be much less prone to this type of failure (although not immune from other issues). This also seems to highlight the wisdom of 1)when buying a new bike, immediately pull the BB and re-grease everything yourself, and 2)Pull your BB every few thousand miles and clean and re-grease everything. Not everyone can do that of course, but preventative maintenance is always a good thing.

[Judd]

@TwoWheelsDC 161522 wrote:

Seems like an external bearing BB would be much less prone to this type of failure (although not immune from other issues). This also seems to highlight the wisdom of 1)when buying a new bike, immediately pull the BB and re-grease everything yourself, and 2)Pull your BB every few thousand miles and clean and re-grease everything. Not everyone can do that of course, but preventative maintenance is always a good thing.

So assuming that no maintenance is done on the BB ever, how long should it last? Asking for a friend that has 3 bikes each with 5,800 to 6,500 miles on the BB without any maintenance.

[hozn]

@Judd 161526 wrote:

So assuming that no maintenance is done on the BB ever, how long should it last? Asking for a friend that has 3 bikes each with 5,800 to 6,500 miles on the BB without any maintenance.

That’s about as long as I get before external cups start making noise. I generally budget that I’ll replace the bearings on a 5-6k interval.

Lately, I’m just ordering bearings from http://wheelsmfg.com/ and pressing them into the same cups. I have been trying to get my money out of this purchase I made a few years back: https://www.endurobearings.com/products/tools/x-drive-tool/

Despite sounding better on paper (larger ball bearings), I’m not sure that the Enduro bearings really last any longer than a standard steel-bearing GXP BB. The SRAM BBs have great seals, in my experience, which I think is the key differentiator on life of BB. Maybe the Enduro spin a little faster, but I think science says that bearing friction is not a significant place where watts are to be gained or lost. It is usually cheaper to get the bearings, though, than the full BB. The first time you do need to get the BB bearing “kit” which includes the seals and the wave washer and spacers; after that you can just order the right size bearings and reuse the seals, etc.

That all said, I don’t think I’d recommend folks go this route. You can usually find a GXP BB on ebay for less than $30. It’s gonna take me awhile to pay for that $120 tool.

[TwoWheelsDC]

@Judd 161526 wrote:

So assuming that no maintenance is done on the BB ever, how long should it last? Asking for a friend that has 3 bikes each with 5,800 to 6,500 miles on the BB without any maintenance.

I should clarify…for a sealed, square taper BB, pulling and greasing isn’t maintenance on the bearings that will affect the BB’s lifespan in the normal sense (i.e. preventing clicky bearnings). What it will do is help prevent corrosion around the spindle and cups that could lead to the type of failures that Jon has experienced, and also make replacement much easier if/when the bearings do fail (i.e. the BB won’t seize in the shell). I’m not aware of any preventative maintenance you can do on a sealed BB that would extend bearing life. I think when the bearings start to fail, you get clicking…and when you get clicking you replace the whole BB. But perhaps I’m misinformed on that.

Some BBs have bearings that can be replaced or regreased (mostly the external bearing BBs)…6k would be a pretty long interval for doing that type of maintenance, I think.

[jrenaut]

So I’m pretty sure the BB on the longtail is the original. So 7400 miles frequently hauling close to 400 pounds (bike + rider + kids + cargo) seems like a pretty good run for a BB. I’ll ask the Bike Rack to give it a hero’s funeral.

[hozn]

@TwoWheelsDC 161530 wrote:

I should clarify…for a sealed, square taper BB, pulling and greasing isn’t maintenance on the bearings that will affect the BB’s lifespan in the normal sense (i.e. preventing clicky bearnings). What it will do is help prevent corrosion around the spindle and cups that could lead to the type of failures that Jon has experienced, and also make replacement much easier if/when the bearings do fail (i.e. the BB won’t seize in the shell). I’m not aware of any preventative maintenance you can do on a sealed BB that would extend bearing life. I think when the bearings start to fail, you get clicking…and when you get clicking you replace the whole BB. But perhaps I’m misinformed on that.

Some BBs have bearings that can be replaced or regreased (mostly the external bearing BBs)…6k would be a pretty long interval for doing that type of maintenance, I think.

Yeah, that’s what I do (replace bearings when it clicks). In my experience there’s no maintenance worth bothering with in cartridge bearing systems. I’ve tried prying out the seals and putting grease in there, but it doesn’t really work and I think removing the seals even once does more harm than good to the overall system. So not worth it.

But don’t you have Chris King BB? Those are, in theory, serviceable. If you have their [also ridiculously overpriced] grease injector tool. I’m not sure it actually helps the system last all that much longer. I replaced the grease with Phil Wood grease every 3k miles and it was clicking by ~8k miles. At that point it had also seized in the frame (lesson learned about the importance of using anti-seize [not just grease] if you’re gonna take advantage of a “service-without-removal” BB). Which then would mean replacing a $140 BB instead of spending $14 on bearings or even $30 on a new BB. Needless to say I’m not convinced there’s any value proposition there; maybe they’ve improved them, but I don’t plan to try again.

[TwoWheelsDC]

@hozn 161537 wrote:

But don’t you have Chris King BB? Those are, in theory, serviceable. If you have their [also ridiculously overpriced] grease injector tool. I’m not sure it actually helps the system last all that much longer. I replaced the grease with Phil Wood grease every 3k miles and it was clicking by ~8k miles. At that point it had also seized in the frame (lesson learned about the importance of using anti-seize [not just grease] if you’re gonna take advantage of a “service-without-removal” BB). Which then would mean replacing a $140 BB instead of spending $14 on bearings or even $30 on a new BB. Needless to say I’m not convinced there’s any value proposition there; maybe they’ve improved them, but I don’t plan to try again.

My Cinelli (which I’m selling…someone buy it!) fixed gear has a CK BB…that was mostly an aesthetic/vanity purchase, and even if I was keeping that bike there’s little chance that I’d rack up enough miles to warrant a re-grease. I have Wheels Mfg BBs in my Cervelo and Fuji gravel bike. For those I plan on just replacing the bearings (but keeping the cups) when the time comes.

[hozn]

@TwoWheelsDC 161539 wrote:

My Cinelli (which I’m selling…someone buy it!) fixed gear has a CK BB…that was mostly an aesthetic/vanity purchase, and even if I was keeping that bike there’s little chance that I’d rack up enough miles to warrant a re-grease. I have Wheels Mfg BBs in my Cervelo and Fuji gravel bike. For those I plan on just replacing the bearings (but keeping the cups) when the time comes.

Ah, very good.

I think you could piece together the bearing extractors and drifts from their site (or extractors + universal bb press?) for less than the Enduro tool unless you already have the tools you need for that?

[EasyRider]

Depends on what the definition of “last” is. If it means “flawless in feel and perfectly silent,” not long. But if you mean “functions without being noisy or grinding,” a long time. Internal bearings are shielded from the elements. External units trade durability for other advantages.

A traditional cup and cone bottom bracket can last years and years a commuter or weekend bike. The evidence is millions of used bikes. I recently replaced the original cup and cone unit on my 1990 Trek 950. I bought the bike used 6 years ago and put over 10,000 miles on it over the next 6 years. It had clearly been ridden hard on trails before I got it. I replaced the BB on a whim earlier this year. I was replacing the chainrings and cleaning the bike anyway. I noticed the BB just needed some fresh grease but I wasn’t in the mood for adjusting it, so I put it in the parts bin and installed a Shimano sealed cartridge unit instead.

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