Why Are DC Area Cyclists the RUDEST I Have Ever Seen ?

[Roscoe]

@washcycle 9894 wrote:

As for rudeness, it’s hard to say why these cyclists are riding two abreast. Perhaps it’s for safety reasons, in which case it isn’t rude. You don’t really know until you ask them why they’re doing it. To assume that it out of selfishness and a lack of concern for others is unfair to them.

Finally, no one is forced to change lanes. Anyone is free to stay behind the bikes in front of them and go 15mph. As far as I know, going 15mph in a 25 mph zone has never killed anyone.

First of all, close observation should reveal that I actually AM trying to figure out why these cyclists are riding 2-abreast. Does your post indicate that you believe I should somehow “ask them” why they’re doing it ? It would interest me to learn some reason why they acquire some great safety advantage when the single cyclists appear to be just fine, as do the ones who ride together but following eachother as I always do unless I’m in a residential area with no traffic.

As far as being free to stay behind people riding 2-abreast, for what frequently appears to be only to chat, and going 15mph in a 25 mph zone frequently in a backlog of traffic…..it’s pretty annoying. But I’m sure that since going 15mph in a 25mph zone “never killed anyone” you must do it all the time, in addition to voluntarily going 10 miles under the speed limit most or all other times in standard conditions. Right ?

But then again, inconveniencing (frequently many) other people for what appears to be no good reason pretty much defines the term “rudeness.” But I guess that’s OK in your opinion because……it won’t kill anyone. I guess you’re also OK with people cutting in front of you in line because waiting a little longer never killed anyone either. Right ?

[Joe Chapline]

@Roscoe 9893 wrote:

As far as riding 2-abreast so drivers must leave the lane ENTIRELY (or even nearly entirely)……I might not understand you correctly. You’re saying that that is a GOOD thing ? I’m open to other opinions and the opportunity to learn something, but my experience seems to indicate quite the opposite.

It would take less time for a driver to pass two cyclists riding side-by-side than two cyclists riding in single file. The driver would need less of a gap in oncoming traffic. If it’s not safe for the driver to be halfway in the oncoming lane if there might be oncoming traffic around the next curve, it could be better to be entirely in the oncoming lane for a shorter time.

There’s a 3-feet to pass law in Maryland. I don’t think there is in DC or VA. But in any case, there are many situations where it’s not safe for a driver to pass a cyclist when there’s oncoming traffic.

[americancyclo]

Here’s a cheatcheet for those interested in the DC, Maryland, and Virginia cycling laws.

http://waba.org/resources/laws.php

On those sections of Beach Drive and Jones Mill cyclists have use of the full lane:
Full lane use allowed when traveling in a lane too narrow to share.
Allowed when it does not impede traffic. May not ride more than two abreast.

[jabberwocky]

Riding abreast is actually good etiquette on narrow roads. If a cyclist and car cannot share a lane legally (which is much more common than people think), the car must leave the lane entirely to pass safely anyway, and riding abreast is then helpful because it reduces the distance the car needs to pass.

[rcannon100]

I gotta concur with a lot of people here.

You have to distinguish your own personal indignation, with other bikers individual judgements concerning safety. Regularly people choose different biking habits than I, for safety reasons. A big one to me is – on MacArthur Blvd bikers regularly bike in the road instead of on the bike lane. Years ago I asked why (ppl thought I was trolling. I wasnt. I ride as far away from cars as possible. ergo, on the bike path).

And the answer was perfectly sensible. The respondents said they ride in the road (slowing traffic) for two big reasons. First, the MacArthur Blvd bike path regularly has gravel and sand on it. At speed, this creates a dangerous situation. Second, the bike path – unlike the road – confronts intersections where the bikers must stop and yield right of way to the perpendicular road – where the blvd has the right of way and goes through with out stopping.

All of that made sense to me. I am an old slow rider. I choose the path. I understand when other people make choices other than me. That does not make them rude. That does not merit my indignation.

In the case at hand, two abreast on a road. Well, to start with, if I am riding on a road, I am going to take the full lane. I dont want a car passing my and squeezing me in the cars or whatever on the side of the road. And the only way to stop a car for passing you improperly is to be in the full lane…… and Two abreast is an excellent way of making sure that cars cant give you the squeeze – not giving you that 3 feet passing clearance. If I were those bikers, I would ride two abreast as a safety feature. You are more visible. You are blocking cars from squeezing you. At speed most bikers may be going in the high teens, meaning the cars are slowed…. but the cars will get there, and there will be a chance for the cars to pass when it is safe. (what is rude is car drivers who take horrendous offense at being slowed down by what, maybe 30 seconds, maybe a minute – from where they are going – and that this merits a dangerous driving)

It’s not rude. It’s a safety choice. The transportation system was not built for bikes. Thus a bike as a bastard step child needs to make decisions. Bicycle too far to the right, and you are gonna get doored, or squeezed or something. In this case, whether you would do it or not, it is absolutely a valid decision of a different biker that the safe choice is to bike in lane slowing the lane. There are a lot of things other bikers do that I dont do – they are not being rude – they have made a choice different than mine about how to bike safely.

[Dirt]

@Greenbelt 9882 wrote:

I think the main issue with DC is that a large share of the population has an elevated sense of self importance.

I agree with Greenbelt on this one. It isn’t just that there are some cyclists that are more rude… there are some PEOPLE that are more rude. They’re rude and self important when they are off the bike too.

It took me a long time to be able to deal with it and stay happy. I try not to paint everyone with the same brush and I laugh at the people that are truly ridiculous in the way they treat others. Getting mad at them does nothing but feed their self-importance. Laughter is the best medicine for me.

Rock on. There’s lots to love in this area. Some of us are pretty dang polite. We’ll do our best to infect the rest of them.

Love,

Pete

[pfunkallstar]

There are some excellent voices of reason at work here. Let me distill out some tidbits – Live and let live, stop and smell the roses, whatever will be will be. Personally, I just go for avoidance. I have an unnatural fear of other humans, so I tend to ride alone on off hours, never on the weekends, and avoid group rides like the plague. I think this all ties back to understanding one’s surroundings – i.e. DC and its culture. I know there are a plethora of type-A maniacs out there, so why deal with them?

[DismalScientist]

@jabberwocky 9901 wrote:

Riding abreast is actually good etiquette on narrow roads. If a cyclist and car cannot share a lane legally (which is much more common than people think), the car must leave the lane entirely to pass safely anyway, and riding abreast is then helpful because it reduces the distance the car needs to pass.

Is this really true? My standard practice if driving is to move over the center line giving the cyclists 6 or 7 feet. Of course, there are some drivers that think you can’t touch a double yellow line. I drives me nuts as a cyclist when drivers complain that they can’t pass because of the double yellow line even though sight lines are sufficient to safely get by a relatively slow moving cyclist.

[DismalScientist]

@Roscoe 9877 wrote:

But why are so many of these people on this trail just so consistently and totally INCONSIDERATE and RUDE ? They make me sick. A generalization, I know…..but the DC/MD area cyclists I’ve encountered are far and away the rudest, most disgustingly inconsiderate group of cyclists I’ve seen in my life. I just don’t understand it.

Seeing as you have omitted VA cyclists, this seem reasonable.:p

[Tim Kelley]

@Roscoe 9877 wrote:

I use the Capital Crescent trail, and the ones it joins onto, a pretty decent amount. And it’s a great system and a great thing to have. Especially for all the commuters – I love that people can ride 8,10,15 miles or so to work instead of commuting by alternate methods. My wife rides on the trail a bit too, though she doesn’t go as far as many folks do.

But the speeding and rudeness on that trail is just absolutely shocking also. That trail is for everyone – not just accomplished cyclists. People that want to near or above 20 mph on that trail should go somewhere else. There are pedestrians there, elderly folks, kids, people with pets…….and people just speed by at an amazingly fast rate for there. I know two people that have been struck by other cyclists while cycling, one needing to go to the hospital.

The CC trail is downhill as you travel south–you probably see most of the people speeding in that direction.

Also: http://ballston.patch.com/articles/local-pathletes-pursue-championship-dreams

[Joe Chapline]

@DismalScientist 9909 wrote:

Is this really true? My standard practice if driving is to move over the center line giving the cyclists 6 or 7 feet. Of course, there are some drivers that think you can’t touch a double yellow line. I drives me nuts as a cyclist when drivers complain that they can’t pass because of the double yellow line even though sight lines are sufficient to safely get by a relatively slow moving cyclist.

When engineers decided where to paint double-yellow lines, no doubt they were thinking about cars passing cars. There are times when drivers need to use their own judgement. If the sight lines are sufficient, no problem. That said, I’ve certainly experienced, as a cyclist, drivers risking a head-on collision to pass me. Although they may be giving me plenty of room when they pass, if a car comes around the bend in the other direction, we’re all going to be involved in the wreck.

If there IS enough room to pass, it doesn’t seem like a great inconvenience to drivers if they have to move completely into the oncoming lane rather than halfway.

[jabberwocky]

This Florida Bike Law link gives a nice illustration as to minimum lane widths and riding 2 abreast and such.

http://www.floridabicycle.org/rules/bikelaw.html

Virginia laws are similar, with the exception of a 2 foot rather than 3 foot minimum passing width.

As with anything bike related, its good to know the law, but its even better to not get run over by impatient drivers. So use your judgement. :p

[americancyclo]

@Tim Kelley 9914 wrote:

Also: Pathletes

Ha!

[Roscoe]

@Joe Chapline 9897 wrote:

It would take less time for a driver to pass two cyclists riding side-by-side than two cyclists riding in single file. The driver would need less of a gap in oncoming traffic. If it’s not safe for the driver to be halfway in the oncoming lane if there might be oncoming traffic around the next curve, it could be better to be entirely in the oncoming lane for a shorter time.

This would only be true if passing consisted solely of the forward movement required in cars passing cyclists. But since it obviously requires a far greater lateral movement for a car to pass two riders abreast, it actually takes a good bit longer to pass cyclists riding like that.

And it inconveniences the traffic more because they not only need a larger gap to make this longer pass, they frequently cannot judge the situation as well with their imperfect vision of the road caused by the cyclists riding abreast. Which obviously results in longer back-ups behind the cyclists. As does the fact that numerous motorists may lack the confidence to pass completely in the oncoming lane. Sure, you can say that those motorists SHOULD have greater skill and confidence….but with some of the poor drivers and elderly folks on the road, it’s just not the case.

The result is simply that the riders riding 2-abreast frequently cause a large traffic backup because they have CHOSEN to do something inconvenient for the people they should be sharing the road with. I see it ALL THE TIME. And of course since all the riders solo or in file seem to be doing just fine, this is just another example of people CHOOSING to be selfish and rude. Seems pretty much standard in this part of the country.

So this post just seems to me to be justifying rudeness while cycling. I’ve never seen this problem in any of the other cities I’ve cycled or driven in regularly. And while the traffic around here is also clearly impatient and rude also…at least they are not making a CONSCIOUS DECISION to do something they know will inconvenience other people, as the 2-abreast cyclists appear to be doing. In my area at least, they seem to take it as some opportunity to flex their selfish ability to temporarily seize control of the roads. The repeated rudeness I see from cyclists in this area disgusts me.

[Roscoe]

@jabberwocky 9901 wrote:

Riding abreast is actually good etiquette on narrow roads. If a cyclist and car cannot share a lane legally (which is much more common than people think), the car must leave the lane entirely to pass safely anyway, and riding abreast is then helpful because it reduces the distance the car needs to pass.

Again, not true. It may reduce the FORWARD distance comprised in passing…..by an amount of perhaps 6-8 feet, which is about the amount of additional space 2 riders would take when riding in file versus abreast. But the amount of lateral movement the cars must make swing around side-by-side riders is increased by a larger amount. And has a higher margin for misjudgement by an unskilled motorist than simply moving forward. And this, of course, says nothing of the fact that cars frequesntly have to pull out into the oncoming lane just to effectively SEE whether they have a perfect opportunity to pass or not.

These riders CHOOSING to be selfish just make the roads more dangerous for everyone, obviously in addition to inconveniencing traffic.

[Author]

Posts