When will planning for Freezing Saddles start?

[jrenaut]

@peterw_diy 128895 wrote:

“Young” developer, huh? Damned agism even when asking for volunteers. You realize Guido himself is nearly 60, right? GRRR. If intended as a joke, NOT FUNNY.

Nothing at all against non-young developers. I just meant that if I were 24 and unattached, I’d probably volunteer to take over. Since I’m older than that and married with two children, I’ll make a smaller contribution.

[hozn]

@Steve O 128885 wrote:

– Slackers not eligible for individual pointless prizes that are based on riding stats (most miles, longest ride, #kidical, 8th slowest, billy goat, etc.)

This might be tricky w/o changing software (to indicate that members of a specific “team” are not actually playing the game).

Perhaps this concept of slackers deserves a *little* more discussion. Maybe, for example, what we really want is simply to allow anyone (with some basic restrictions about being a member of the forum, being in region, etc.) to be able to authorize the Strava app and to have their instagram photos show up, and their rides count in overall stats, etc. but not to actually be assigned to any team and not to appear on any leaderboards. Sideline participant. Because riding in the winter is something that likes company, and I think for the Slackers team that is really what this is about. Honestly, I think that is largely what Freezing Saddles is about.

I agree that it’s kinda pointless (no pun intended) to have one or more teams that aren’t actually participating in the competition. Those types of exceptions suggest we might be trying to hammer in a nail with a screwdriver.

Having teamless participants might also be effectively how we deal with late comers, though I really like the proposal of randomly assigning people to weakest teams to shake things up.

[Rod Smith]

If you’re placed on a DC team your team will be finish last or second to last.

[Sunyata]

I can volunteer to do team assignments. I will shoot Emma a message and see if she would not mind giving me a couple of pointers on what she did last year, since she did such an excellent job with it.

[TwoWheelsDC]

I’ve sorta had a change of heart about the Slacker team. I was going to be on it last year, since I was in school full time and wasn’t going to be riding much…but then I ended up choosing to be on a regular team. Sure enough, I didn’t ride much, but I did ride every day and still ended up decently high in the overall rankings and right about the middle on my team. My thinking is that even if I don’t make an effort to ride extra because of the competition, my limited winter riding this year (basically commuting) will still be enough to make a solid contribution to a team…because frankly, there are a lot of people who sign up and flake out, so regularly putting up any amount of miles automatically puts you above about 25% of the people in the game. So I think the attitude of “I don’t plan on riding a ton of extra miles, so I want to be on the Slacker team” doesn’t make a lot of sense to me anymore (granted, I’m not particularly competitive in this type of game). I think if you maybe plan on riding once or twice a week or less, and you just want the social aspect/motivation to get outside when you normally wouldn’t, then maybe it makes sense to join the Slacker team (although I do like the idea of saying Slackers is for BAFS veterans only), but if you’re going to maintain a somewhat regular riding schedule, I think it’s worth joining a regular team.

That said, I’d be hesitant to employ too many rules on joining the Slacker team unless too many people try to join. It would be fairly easy to set a points threshold and just bump Slackers onto regular teams if they cross it. But I think last year there were only a few Slackers, so I don’t think something like that would be necessary.

[Rod Smith]

Slackers cheated my team out of Lanterne Rouge honors last year. We beat them on least points per rider though.

[Anonymous]

Regarding slackers, there is no particular reason slackers need to fill out the registration form at all. In order to show up on the leaderboard, you need to 1) authorize the app, and 2) join a strava team that hozn/jrenaut add to the leaderboard. Registration form is really only necessary to gather info for team assignments, so if you are predetermined to not be on a team, it’s not needed. Have rcannon or hozn or someone create a strava slacker team and let anyone who hangs out on the forum enough to know it exists join it. This would keep newcomers from confusing it with an actual team and thinking they need to sign up for it if they’re not super-high mileage riders, which I think is the main objection to it? I don’t think any regulars have any confusion about it being an actual team.

While I’m intending to join a real team this year, I think slackers should be allowed on the individual leaderboards. Getting to see my “hours ridden after dark” type of stats was kinda the point for me last year. I have no opinion about the “slacker team” showing up on the team leaderboards, except that it seems like it might be more trouble for the programmers to deliberately exclude it (I actually don’t know, maybe it isn’t).

[peterw_diy]

@jrenaut 128904 wrote:

Nothing at all against non-young developers. I just meant that if I were 24 and unattached, I’d probably volunteer to take over. Since I’m older than that and married with two children, I’ll make a smaller contribution.

I think there’s an inverted bell curve for contribution availability of family types. Time decreases in the mating years, nearly evaporates in the nursing years, then, I hope, reappears as the juveniles gain independence, probably returns in full strength when the nest empties.

[Steve O]

@hozn 128905 wrote:

This might be tricky w/o changing software (to indicate that members of a specific “bunch o’ ” are not actually playing the game).

It wouldn’t be necessary to change the software, although it would be good. If a slacker happened to “win” one of these, the actual pointless prize would just go to the next non-slacker on the list. Sort of like Lance Armstrong (in reverse or something:confused:).

[Anonymous]

@cvcalhoun 128882 wrote:

Chris Randall is ineligible, unless he gets back here from Kyiv. Just sayin’.

@KelOnWheels 128884 wrote:

OH FINE. I’ll just be over here in the corner…

I personally have no objection to grandfathering in previous players who have since moved and still participate in the forum, although admittedly sooner or later someone’s bound to move somewhere warm and then we’d have to deal with whether or not that’s allowed. But I’m not sure why everything else is up for discussion and this is not…

[dkel]

If someone put in a lot of miles in last year’s challenge, but plans not to put in nearly as many this year (for whatever reason), how is that person assigned to a team based on the information gathered by the form? The only reason I’m considering joining the slackers this year is that I’m not expecting to be able to put in a competitive effort when compared to my effort last year. As far as I can tell, if I were assigned to a non-slacker team, the handicapping system would then put that team at a disadvantage, since the assignment is based on last year’s mileage. I just don’t want to let anyone down, and I know how freakishly competitive people are around here (me included).

[Steve O]

I think it would be good to remind ourselves why we do this crazy Freezing Saddles game every year. Here are my thoughts, and I welcome others’ perspectives as well:

1 – To have fun!
2 – To bring new bicyclists into our welcoming and friendly community
3 – To provide a little motivation to ride our bikes more during the dark, cold winter
4 – To have fun!
5 – To create excuses for doing fun things, like rides, and wacky side bets, and happy hours, and last night parties
6 – To build the community on this Forum, which supports cycling and all it entails in the DC region
7 – To have fun!

@Amalitza 128914 wrote:

Regarding slackers, there is no particular reason slackers need to fill out the registration form at all. In order to show up on the leaderboard, you need to 1) authorize the app, and 2) join a strava team that hozn/jrenaut add to the leaderboard.

But Freezing Saddles is so much more than having your name on a leaderboard. My name is on a bunch of segment leaderboards on Strava (way down the leaderboard, that is), and that’s all interesting and such, but it does little to further engage me in the biking community (see #’s 2 & 6 above). This is why I think people should be on teams, particularly newbies. Vets are already part of our community, so it’s less of an issue in their case. Having someone fill out the registration form requires them to at least commit to being part of the game. Sure, some end up flaking out, but eliminating any sort of up front effort at commitment so scores of people can just get their name on the FS website will reduce the game to nothing more than a statistical exercise.

@hozn 128905 wrote:

Because riding in the winter is something that likes company, and I think for the Slackers team that is really what this is about. Honestly, I think that is largely what Freezing Saddles is about.

I agree that it’s kinda pointless (no pun intended) to have one or more teams that aren’t actually participating in the competition. Those types of exceptions suggest we might be trying to hammer in a nail with a screwdriver.

Agreed. Which is why I don’t think there should be a Slackers “team,” but rather a small number of former players who just don’t want to fully play the game but want to be involved. Everyone else needs to register and play on a team. That’s what makes it fun (see #’s 1, 4 & 7 above)

[Steve O]

@dkel 128918 wrote:

If someone put in a lot of miles in last year’s challenge, but plans not to put in nearly as many this year (for whatever reason), how is that person assigned to a team based on the information gathered by the form? The only reason I’m considering joining the slackers this year is that I’m not expecting to be able to put in a competitive effort when compared to my effort last year. As far as I can tell, if I were assigned to a non-slacker team, the handicapping system would then put that team at a disadvantage, since the assignment is based on last year’s mileage. I just don’t want to let anyone down, and I know how freakishly competitive people are around here (me included).

So if teams were randomly assigned or another system were used that didn’t put you in this position, would you play on a team?

If the reason some of our veterans want to opt for slackers is because they are concerned about this issue (last year’s points unattainable this year), then I think that’s a big problem. I, for one, think dkel is exactly the kind of person who should be on a team–not just for his miles, but for his whole person. Having awesome participants like dkel opting off a team is a problem, and we should find a solution that will encourage everyone to play and not have a system that disincentivizes full participation for any reason.

[Anonymous]

SteveO, I think you misunderstood what I was suggesting. What I was suggesting is that

1) People who want to play the game sign up via the registration form. There is no option for “slacker team.”
2) The “small number of former players who just don’t want to fully play the game but want to be involved” don’t need to sign the registration form and won’t be fully playing the game. Because they will be “vets [who are] already part of the community”, they will have other means of knowing how to join the slackers on strava and can do so if they choose.
3) Being on the (individual) leaderboards along with the people who are for-real playing helps keep slackers involved and social and contributes to all 7 of your points except probably #2.

@Steve O 128920 wrote:

But Freezing Saddles is so much more than having your name on a leaderboard. My name is on a bunch of segment leaderboards on Strava (way down the leaderboard, that is), and that’s all interesting and such, but it does little to further engage me in the biking community (see #’s 2 & 6 above). This is why I think people should be on teams,

And this is why I think people should be allowed to be slackers. Freezing Saddles, the game with real teams, is a competition. Sure, it is a friendly competition which has a primary goal of being fun and socially inclusive, but we add up points and announce a winning team. Being a slacker allows you to do that so much more without competing. You can argue all you want to that people shouldn’t be overly competitive and shouldn’t worry about how many points they are scoring for their team, but that is ignoring human nature. You can’t create a competition and then tell competitive people to not worry about competing.

[wheelswings]

Wow. It looks like a lot of progress in grappling with these tricky-but-important details. Thanks everyone.

Three points:
–My concern with the slacker concept is mostly in how it affects the rest of the teams and the entire Freezing Saddles by siphoning off those who may not be as hardcore, dare-devil, or stupid as some of us. I want people who are recovering from injuries or who can’t ride every single day to feel welcome on our teams. I don’t want FS to become a hyper-competitive venture only for the most elite riders with lots of spare time and with studs on their tires. I’m a single mom with massive eldercare obligations and extensive carpooling duties (never let your kids become competitive gymnasts. ) I want FS to be for all of us, even if we don’t have time or capacity to log extra rides beyond our daily commute to the office.

–I like Amalitza’s idea of grandfathering in former riders living in similarly cold climes. I happen to like our former teammates, and I miss them. And if this helps bring them back for a HH, all the better!!

–FS was one of the best things in my entire year. The friendships, the camaraderie, the funny prizes, the stupid goofy activities like riding in circles around Haines Point at midnight… believe me, in my life there is little space for stupid and goofy…it was a blast. I have five or six more pointless prizes I want to give out this year.

So I hope we can make it work, but at the same time I’m keenly aware of the enormous behind-the-scenes job that Hozn, Arlingtonrider and others have put into it in past years, and that they may not have time for, this year.

[Author]

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