What we talk about when we talk about speed

[lordofthemark]

In a discussion of pedal options, the thread starter says he rides at 11MPH. Judd says that when threadstarter gets to 14MPH, he will be in good company. Also note, most group rides are charecterized by an expected speed.

But. This morning, per strava, on a short flat segment, in ideal conditions (perfect temp, no wind(?) sort of drafting Jeanne, and perhaps with momentum from before the segment, I did 21MPH (PR, yay! (and yeah, I know, GPS can be sketchy so that may not be real)) But in more usual circumstances, on longer almost flat segments, I ride more like 14MPH to maybe 16 or 17MPH. But on my entire commute to work (whether measured from home at Park Center, or from Shirlington) I have yet to break 13MPH. And more often than not, average (per strava) under 12.5. Some combination of modest hills, awkward turns and sidewalks, and stopping for red lights (strava only cuts off after 20 seconds stopped). But also, I will admit, because I get tired and slow down after a certain point (more of an issue on the way home, generally).

So – I am sure I am NOT a 20MPH rider. But am I a 14MPH rider? Or a 12MPH rider? There are a lot group rides advertised at around 14MPH, and I am generally hesitant to sign up.

Topic

[ImaCynic]

I believe when folks talk speed, they are referring to the average speed rather than the fastest one can ride for any brief period.

Sent from my XT1575 using Tapatalk

[ImaCynic]

Most bike computers provide average speed reading, and that is usually a better gauge of one’s true pace.

Sent from my XT1575 using Tapatalk

[lordofthemark]

@f148vr 162294 wrote:

Most bike computers provide average speed reading, and that is usually a better gauge of one’s true pace.

Sent from my XT1575 using Tapatalk

So something like the Strava average, but with tighter cutoffs for stops? (and based on actual speed, not GPS estimate?)

[dasgeh]

@lordofthemark 162297 wrote:

So something like the Strava average, but with tighter cutoffs for stops? (and based on actual speed, not GPS estimate?)

I would also say average speed while you’re going. So something like Strava average, but a bit higher if you stop often, because not only do you need to take out the stopped time, but you need to ignore the time you spend stopping and starting as well.

[huskerdont]

I just started using Strava this winter, and I still have bike computers on all my bikes. Strava seems surprisingly good at getting the average speed right, compared to the bike computers. For instance, in the mornings, I have a combination of neighborhoods with few stops, the lightly traveled (6 a.m.) Custis, and about 4 miles downtown with some stops at lights. If my bike computer says I have a 15.5 average speed, when I’m saving the Strava ride it might say 13 mph at first, but when it finalizes, it will come up with something between 15.3 to 15.7–so pretty close. This is using an Android app, not a Garmin.

[ImaCynic]

My computer automatically pauses when I stop, and starts again when I start moving, so I have descent confidence with the numbers. Strava added autopause feature not long ago, but if you stop somewhere and walks around with your phone, Strava can sometimes misinterprets that and skew the average.

Sent from my XT1575 using Tapatalk

[Drewdane]

[ATTACH=CONFIG]15067[/ATTACH]

[Judd]

@dasgeh 162299 wrote:

I would also say average speed while you’re going. So something like Strava average, but a bit higher if you stop often, because not only do you need to take out the stopped time, but you need to ignore the time you spend stopping and starting as well.

The Strava phone app tends to show a lower average speed than the Garmin for me, since it takes a bit longer to autopause at stops.

[Judd]

@lordofthemark 162290 wrote:

In a discussion of pedal options, the thread starter says he rides at 11MPH. Judd says that when threadstarter gets to 14MPH, he will be in good company. Also note, most group rides are charecterized by an expected speed.

… There are a lot group rides advertised at around 14MPH, and I am generally hesitant to sign up.

I should probably clarify that 14 mph average is while riding in places without a lot of stops and starts or where one has to negotiate traffic.

You should sign up for 14 mph group rides. The best that will happen is that you’ll be able to do it easily and have a great time. The worst that will happen is that you’ll get dropped.

[lordofthemark]

@Judd 162311 wrote:

I should probably clarify that 14 mph average is while riding in places without a lot of stops and starts or where one has to negotiate traffic.

You should sign up for 14 mph group rides. The best that will happen is that you’ll be able to do it easily and have a great time. The worst that will happen is that you’ll get dropped.

I checked my Strava speeds on MVT, 4MRT to 14thStreet Bridge, which is long enough, no traffic lights,. not 100% flat My speeds
this year (so all on the Cannondale, which is faster than the Dew was) range from a low of 11.2MPH to a high of 16MPH. I am rather inconsistent, I suppose. Partly because A. I try to be cautious and polite on the trails so the number and behavior of other trail users impacts my speed (yay for me!) B. I am still too inconsistent about checking my tire pressure so I am sometimes riding with way too low pressure (boo for me!) C. Wind speed and direction (effects everyone I guess, but upright riders more? and yeah, I should HTFU) D. I seem to be pretty sensitive to the temp.

Note, in the reverse direction, its 10.8 MPH to 14.6MPH. hmm. More trail traffic in the evening, sure. Not sure about temps – more hot temp rides (in late afternoon in spring and summer) but more good tem rides in the winter? Probably more that I am just more tired, physically and psychologically, in the evening, and am just not pushing as hard.

So I guess a 14MPH rider then. Though on the other hand, I am not sure I could do that for a full hour, let alone for a group ride longer than that. And of course my comparative advantage is best on flats.

[dkel]

@lordofthemark 162312 wrote:

So I guess a 14MPH rider then. Though on the other hand, I am not sure I could do that for a full hour, let alone for a group ride longer than that. And of course my comparative advantage is best on flats.

You’ll always be faster on group rides, because of the aerodynamic advantage of being in the group. Also being in a group causes you to focus less on how hard you may be working, and more on what’s going on around you. A good group ride will bring your best effort out without you even realizing it.

[TwoWheelsDC]

While I do not advocate riding recklessly on trails, time yourself around the Arlington Loop at an effort that is roughly as fast as you can go while still being able to make it home (and maintain PAL status, of course). That’ll give you some idea of your true speed potential. So if you can do 14mph on the loop (which is pretty fast for the loop), you can probably hang with a 14mph group ride.

That said, there are so many variables that using average moving speed as a primary gauge is almost useless. My average commute speed is something like 13.5mph over 12 miles. That seems pretty slow, but I have to average like 200 watts (a decent amount of power) for the last half to maintain that average speed because it’s uphill and with some gravel. Also, distance plays a big role too. Riding 14mph for 30 minutes is a lot different than riding 14mph for 50 miles…not just because of the distance, but because of wind, hills, stops/starts, etc…

[hozn]

@dkel 162315 wrote:

You’ll always be faster on group rides, because of the aerodynamic advantage of being in the group. Also being in a group causes you to focus less on how hard you may be working, and more on what’s going on around you. A good group ride will bring your best effort out without you even realizing it.

Yes, I was gonna say something similar. Definitely sign up for the 14mph; you might find it to be too slow, but then you’ll know!

Aero is a huge factor, though. This AM the HP laps were running 27mph into the headwind (southbound) and 29-30mph on the inside stretch. That was really tough / I couldn’t hang on so I dropped off after 4 laps. Similar output after that (by myself) would maybe push me to 22mph. I mostly just cruised and enjoyed the perfect morning, though

OTOH, folks at HP are probably riding a lot closer together than those riding a 14mph group ride, but even just hanging out in the middle of a large group (and not right on a wheel) will be a lot easier than riding by yourself.

[ImaCynic]

@TwoWheelsDC 162317 wrote:

While I do not advocate riding recklessly on trails, time yourself around the Arlington Loop at an effort that is roughly as fast as you can go while still being able to make it home (and maintain PAL status, of course). That’ll give you some idea of your true speed potential. So if you can do 14mph on the loop (which is pretty fast for the loop), you can probably hang with a 14mph group ride.

That said, there are so many variables that using average moving speed as a primary gauge is almost useless. My average commute speed is something like 13.5mph over 12 miles. That seems pretty slow, but I have to average like 200 watts (a decent amount of power) for the last half to maintain that average speed because it’s uphill and with some gravel. Also, distance plays a big role too. Riding 14mph for 30 minutes is a lot different than riding 14mph for 50 miles…not just because of the distance, but because of wind, hills, stops/starts, etc…

Yes, there are many elements that influence a ride, but at end of the day, it simply comes down to how long does it take to cover certain distance and that is “speed” by definition (average, of course).

[ImaCynic]

@hozn 162318 wrote:

Yes, I was gonna say something similar. Definitely sign up for the 14mph; you might find it to be too slow, but then you’ll know!

Aero is a huge factor, though. This AM the HP laps were running 27mph into the headwind (southbound) and 29-30mph on the inside stretch. That was really tough / I couldn’t hang on so I dropped off after 4 laps. Similar output after that (by myself) would maybe push me to 22mph. I mostly just cruised and enjoyed the perfect morning, though

OTOH, folks at HP are probably riding a lot closer together than those riding a 14mph group ride, but even just hanging out in the middle of a large group (and not right on a wheel) will be a lot easier than riding by yourself.

One point I like to make is that first priority in a group ride is knowing how to ride in a group, and not how fast to ride.

[Author]

Replies