What do you think of the Kona Dew?

[ShawnoftheDread]

@lordofthemark 65897 wrote:

http://www.konaworld.com/dew.cfm

I test rode the Kona Dew Plus last week, and liked it very much. At $500 (for the Dew, not the Dew Plus) its a bit more than I wanted to spend, but Bikekenetics offers lifetime repairs with that, which is tempting.

I test rode a Dew at Bikenetic this summer. I liked it. Thought it was surprisingly light and agile, and seemed like a better deal than the Trek FX series. They used to have a drop-bar version called the Dew Drop, but it’s been discontinued.

[consularrider]

I’ve been looking at the Dew Plus for my wife to replace her 20 year old mountain bike. Now if I could only get her to test ride it.

[Greenbelt]

Durable, light, fun to ride, versatile, high value. Not really intended for the longest rides — has mountain bike roots more than a road bike.

[lordofthemark]

@Greenbelt 65902 wrote:

Durable, light, fun to ride, versatile, high value. Not really intended for the longest rides — has mountain bike roots more than a road bike.

Okay, help me with this (not only WRT to the Dew, but more broadly) The bike is light and has 700CC tires. What makes it so far from a road bike? Lack of drop handle bars? The tires not being narrower than they are?

[Greenbelt]

@lordofthemark 65904 wrote:

Okay, help me with this (not only WRT to the Dew, but more broadly) The bike is light and has 700CC tires. What makes it so far from a road bike? Lack of drop handle bars? The tires not being narrower than they are?

Maybe it’s just me — others with more experience can weigh in — but I think the the relatively more upright MTB-ish body position and flat handle bar hand position would be a tad less efficient and for me a little more fatiguing on really long rides. I think the handshake position (hands on brake hoods of drop bar bikes) is comfiest for long rides than the typing position (flat bar). But heck, that might be overanalyzing things! The best bike for any ride is the one that feels great to you!

Some commuters put bar ends on their flat bar bikes to get an extra handshake position option for longer cruises.

[vvill]

@lordofthemark 65904 wrote:

Okay, help me with this (not only WRT to the Dew, but more broadly) The bike is light and has 700CC tires. What makes it so far from a road bike? Lack of drop handle bars? The tires not being narrower than they are?

I’m no expert on frame design, etc. but afaik the geometry of the bike is upright enough that it will not be as efficient, at speed, over longer rides. The (smaller) headtube angle and (taller) headtube length are two numbers in the geometry charts you could compare with more typical road bikes, other than the general shape of the frame. (Obviously the tires/bars could be changed.)

That said it looks like a nice zippy utility bike and with some lighter tires and perhaps bar ends I’m sure you could go pretty fast.

[DismalScientist]

Hybrids, as originally defined were halfway between mountain and road bikes.
In general, mountain bikes had more upright geometry and heavier frames.
Mountain bikes had 26″ wheels, while road bikes had 700 C wheels.
Mountain bikes have wider rims and tires.
Mountain bikes had flat bars, while road bikes had drops.

Hybrids generally have frames that are more upright, but lighter than mountain bikes. (This varies as one can find light, expensive mountain bike frames and heavy inexpensive hybrid and road bike frames.) Hybrids typically have unsuspended or lightly suspended forks.
Hybrids had 700 C wheels. (As do 29er mountain bikes!)
Hybrids have rims and tires that are intermediate in width between road bikes and mountain bikes.
Hybrids have flat bar or curved upright bars.

Flat bar road bikes should have frames that are a light as comparably equipped road bikes. Flat bar road bikes might have carbon forks as do some road bikes. A flat bar road bike likely has high pressure 700×28 tires and you can probably put narrower tires on the rims. Flat bar road bikes will have a flat bar (not curved) with trigger shifting. In essence, a flat bar road bike is simply a road bike with flat bars, so all the tradeoffs between road bikes and mountain bikes are made in favor of the road bike, but just having a flat bar.

It is difficult to say there is one spec that defines a flat bar road bike as there is not just one spec that defines a road bike. Road bikes come in many flavor and that would be expected of a flat bar road bike as well.

[ShawnoftheDread]

@DismalScientist 65923 wrote:

Hybrids, as originally defined were halfway between mountain and road bikes.
In general, mountain bikes had more upright geometry and heavier frames.
Mountain bikes had 26″ wheels, while road bikes had 700 C wheels.
Mountain bikes have wider rims and tires.
Mountain bikes had flat bars, while road bikes had drops.

Hybrids generally have frames that are more upright, but lighter than mountain bikes. (This varies as one can find light, expensive mountain bike frames and heavy inexpensive hybrid and road bike frames.) Hybrids typically have unsuspended or lightly suspended forks.
Hybrids had 700 C wheels. (As do 29er mountain bikes!)
Hybrids have rims and tires that are intermediate in width between road bikes and mountain bikes.
Hybrids have flat bar or curved upright bars.

Flat bar road bikes should have frames that are a light as comparably equipped road bikes. Flat bar road bikes might have carbon forks as do some road bikes. A flat bar road bike likely has high pressure 700×28 tires and you can probably put narrower tires on the rims. Flat bar road bikes will have a flat bar (not curved) with trigger shifting. In essence, a flat bar road bike is simply a road bike with flat bars, so all the tradeoffs between road bikes and mountain bikes are made in favor of the road bike, but just having a flat bar.

It is difficult to say there is one spec that defines a flat bar road bike as there is not just one spec that defines a road bike. Road bikes come in many flavor and that would be expected of a flat bar road bike as well.

That was an economist’s way of telling you he doesn’t have an answer. Reminds me of Harry Truman saying he needed to find a one-armed economist, because every one he had would tell him “on the one hand…. but on the other hand… and on the other hand….”

[consularrider]

@ShawnoftheDread 65927 wrote:

… Reminds me of Harry Truman saying he needed to find a one-armed economist, because every one he had would tell him “on the one hand…. but on the other hand… and on the other hand….”

Isn’t that just a slot machine?

[mstone]

@lordofthemark 65904 wrote:

Okay, help me with this (not only WRT to the Dew, but more broadly) The bike is light and has 700CC tires. What makes it so far from a road bike? Lack of drop handle bars? The tires not being narrower than they are?

Let’s see…the top tube is fairly low, which is good for not crunching the tender bits if you slip, but makes the frame a bit weaker (all else being equal; MTBs compensate by being built heavier). This can translate into more flex in the frame. The geometry is designed for sitting upright, which is better for riding in congestion & light use but (for many) fatiguing for long rides (due to aero effects as well as weight distribution between hands, feet, and bottom). Geometry basically comes down to how far it is from the seat to the handlebars; the horizontal distance will change fairly dramatically as the vertical distance changes because you’re moving your hands along an arc as well as leaning forward or backward. You can compensate a little bit by changing the stem, but generally to go from an upright to a dropped position will generally be a large enough change that you’d need a different frame size. Most people like to move their hands around & change positions on a long ride. Drop bars, butterfly bars, and bar ends all lead to similar results, and bar ends can be added to more flat bar bikes fairly easily. In general, I’d suggest optimizing for your preferred position: if I were to spend most of my time on bar ends, I’d rather be on a drop bar bike that put me in the same position while I was on the hoods, for better access to the brake & shifter. If I were to spend most of my time on the flats on a drop bar bike, I’d rather be on a flat bar bike for better access to the brake & shifter (though interrupt levers can address the brake issue) and because that setup is significantly cheaper than brifters.

[mstone]

@consularrider 65931 wrote:

Isn’t that just a slot machine?

I’m seeing a lot of parallels with economic forecasting already.

[lordofthemark]

@ShawnoftheDread 65927 wrote:

That was an economist’s way of telling you he doesn’t have an answer. Reminds me of Harry Truman saying he needed to find a one-armed economist, because every one he had would tell him “on the one hand…. but on the other hand… and on the other hand….”

actually theres a technical term (which I am applying loosely) for what we are doing – hedonic pricing. The idea is that a good is actually a bundle of attributes, and what you will pay for the good is based on what you will pay for the attributes. The attributes being driven (at least in this case) by features/specs of the good.

So the principle attributes I will pay for are – reliability, comfort (for me, and granted even for me that differ by terrain, ride length, weather, etc) speed (on flats, up hills, etc). My sense is that the tradeoff among road bikes, road leaning hybrids, and MTB leaning hybrids (have I got that right?) is that the as you in the direction of the road bike you get higher speed, and more comfort on longer rides (cause of differences in positioning) while giving up reliability, and giving up “commuter comfort” (esp the greater visibility one gets in an upright posture). There are also stiffness of ride issues, but Im not sure I grok those.

What Im trying to get a handle on (pardon) is the relation of the bike specs to the speed attribute, in particular. I thought the major drivers were weight, aerodynamics from rider position, and tire size and width. Some above have also introduced efficiency related to frame shape, which is about more than simply the flatness of the handle bars, IIUC.

[lordofthemark]

@mstone 65933 wrote:

This can translate into more flex in the frame. The geometry is designed for sitting upright, which is better for riding in congestion & light use but (for many) fatiguing for long rides (due to aero effects as well as weight distribution between hands, feet, and bottom)..

what distances are we talking about? 20 miles? 200? Seriously, while my current commute is about 6 miles each way, if the drop bar (and associated attributes) is helpful at only a bit longer than that, I really owe it to myself to test ride some road bikes. If it doesn’t really become an issue till we are talking about century rides, I don’t think I want to take up my bike shopping time with that now.

[consularrider]

@mstone 65934 wrote:

I’m seeing a lot of parallels with economic forecasting already.

Or just call it a crap shoot.

[ShawnoftheDread]

@lordofthemark 65936 wrote:

what distances are we talking about? 20 miles? 200? Seriously, while my current commute is about 6 miles each way, if the drop bar (and associated attributes) is helpful at only a bit longer than that, I really owe it to myself to test ride some road bikes. If it doesn’t really become an issue till we are talking about century rides, I don’t think I want to take up my bike shopping time with that now.

In my experience it starts to become an issue around 20 miles, though I’ve ridden my hybrid 50 with no real issues. And as others have stated, you can easily get some alternate hand positions with bar ends.

[Author]

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