Washington Blvd repaving thru Westover

[DismalScientist]

@zsionakides 188094 wrote:

Such a facility would have far more usage across a broader spectrum of riders than the current door zone bike lanes. If you look at the cycletracks in DC (e.g. Penn Ave, 15th St, or 1st NE), they have much better usage than comparable on-street bike lanes including amongst the general public.

Safety wise, cycletracks (and really all PBLs) are meant for slower riding than on-street riding and caution should be taken through any intersection. For higher speed riders, I would recommend they ride on the street with traffic. For the general public of non-high speed riders (the 8-88 years old crowd), getting a protected facility gives them a much better place to ride then on a sidewalk or in a road they aren’t comfortable riding in.

Why would you want to attract a broader spectrum of riders on Washington Blvd? It basically parallels the Custis. If you feel uncomfortable on Wash Blvd, take the trail.

The street is too narrow to carve out a two-way cycle track.

The problem for higher speed riders is that once you carve out cycletracks or PBLs, you make the regular travel lanes narrower and more difficult to ride in/with traffic. The speed limit on Washington Blvd is 30 mph. I ride this road every day. Do not do this.

(If they really want something to fix, they should change the lane configuration at the George Mason intersection and have dedicated left turn lanes. Now you have through traffic using the intersection trying to pass other through traffic on the right.)

[zsionakides]

@dasgeh 188100 wrote:

I love PBLs. I think we should have PBLs on all major streets in Arlington.

However, we shouldn’t build PBLs that have obstructed views of conflict points. Parking will obstruct views, so, in my opinion, PBLs that are beside parking are most appropriate on streets where there are few driveways.

On this stretch, the ideal would be to build one-way (i.e. one on each side) PBLs without parking where there are driveways. If you did a two-way cycletrack, on one side, I would want to see a parking pulled for a significant distance from each driveway, which would mean all parking removed for some of those blocked. That’s a heavy lift. Not that we shouldn’t propose it, but it’s a really heavy lift.

The issue with one-way PBLs on this part of Washington Blvd is they will have to be narrow and part of that narrow PBL will be taken up by the gutter on the road. This may end up with a worse situation than what is on Pershing’s PBLs. You will also have to take a lot of parking spaces for daylight with one-way PBLs, but I think the number would be much higher than with a 2 way cycletrack. From Ivanhoe east to Frederick, there is no parking on the south side, and on the block between Longfellow and Patrick Henry there are no driveways with the school being there, so parking could be kept entirely with a cycletrack. The blocks in between Patrick Henry and Ivanhoe may require a few spots taken, but those could possibly be replaced on the north side of the road with that bike lane removed and there no longer a need for mixing areas.

[Steve O]

@DismalScientist 188101 wrote:

Why would you want to attract a broader spectrum of riders on Washington Blvd? It basically parallels the Custis. If you feel uncomfortable on Wash Blvd, take the trail.
I ride this road every day.

For that matter, why allow cars on Washington Blvd.? It basically parallels Lee Highway.
Maybe the Custis is not where these people want to go. Like you–“I ride this road every day.”–I suspect there are others who would also ride this road every day if it were more comfortable for them. Presumably you would prefer that only experienced, comfortable riders like yourself should have access to using this street on their bike. I think that Isabella should be able to ride here to get to the library or Toby’s or wherever she wants to go.

I’m not trying to “attract a broader spectrum of riders.” I’m wanting to create a comprehensive, safe, comfortable bike riding infrastructure essentially everywhere. Yes, this seems to be an impossible aspirational goal, but it’s what we have to hold up. Otherwise all we have is a bunch of fixie-riding economists.

[lordofthemark]

@accordioneur 188078 wrote:

Yes, Lost Dog is in the area, but it’s not rabid

One of the nice things about Westover is that it’s not strictly an “upper middle class” enclave. There are a large number of more affordable garden apartment rentals around Westover, and the mix of businesses – barbershop, drug store, hardware store, library, bank, bars, etc. – serves the entire community. I would suggest that self-loathing upper middle classers and Arlington haters might want to restrict themselves to the workers’ paradises of their own communities – proletarian utopias such as Old Town and Del Ray come to mind.

My original point was meant to be light (dystopian being obviously absurd) and focused on the complete streets difficulties. I mentioned class only in response to a list of fine retail establishments. I probably shouldn’t have. I can edit my remarks if that is desired. Ok? Peace.

[lordofthemark]

@DismalScientist 188101 wrote:

Why would you want to attract a broader spectrum of riders on Washington Blvd? It basically parallels the Custis. If you feel uncomfortable on Wash Blvd, take the trail.

The street is too narrow to carve out a two-way cycle track.

The problem for higher speed riders is that once you carve out cycletracks or PBLs, you make the regular travel lanes narrower and more difficult to ride in/with traffic. The speed limit on Washington Blvd is 30 mph. I ride this road every day. Do not do this.

(If they really want something to fix, they should change the lane configuration at the George Mason intersection and have dedicated left turn lanes. Now you have through traffic using the intersection trying to pass other through traffic on the right.)

I’m probably going to regret this, but if pedestrians are crossing the street here frequently, shouldn’t the speed limit be 25 mph? And the lanes narrowed to discourage driving faster? A street where experienced riders are uncomfortable taking the lane for a few blocks strikes me as inherently unfriendly to pedestrians and not ideal for what people say this place is. Old Town folks may be pretentious and a lot of them hate bikes but they are mostly on board with being pedestrian friendly. There, I think I’ve expressed what bothers me without using sarcasm subject to misunderstanding.

[NickBull]

@sjclaeys 188030 wrote:

A beer garden, hardware store that has everything …

Haha, one of my family sayings is “If Ayers doesn’t have it, you don’t really need it.” (Ayers is the above-mentioned hardware store.)

As an avid cyclist and cycle commuter, I have to say … I hope they’re not going to sacrifice parking spaces in Westover for cycle paths of any kind. Parking is already scarce. And cyclists commuting through Westover are even scarcer. Not because of any lack of bike paths, but because no one commutes on Washington Blvd. If you want to commute, you commute on the W&OD or Custis, where you’re less likely to get killed. If Westover is your destination, then it’s easy enough to get there on back roads coming from the bike paths or through the neighborhoods.

[DismalScientist]

@Steve O 188106 wrote:

For that matter, why allow cars on Washington Blvd.? It basically parallels Lee Highway.
Maybe the Custis is not where these people want to go. Like you–“I ride this road every day.”–I suspect there are others who would also ride this road every day if it were more comfortable for them. Presumably you would prefer that only experienced, comfortable riders like yourself should have access to using this street on their bike. I think that Isabella should be able to ride here to get to the library or Toby’s or wherever she wants to go.

I’m not trying to “attract a broader spectrum of riders.” I’m wanting to create a comprehensive, safe, comfortable bike riding infrastructure essentially everywhere. Yes, this seems to be an impossible aspirational goal, but it’s what we have to hold up. Otherwise all we have is a bunch of fixie-riding economists.

Why is it necessary or even desirable to make comprehensive, safe and comfortable bike infrastructure everywhere for folks like Isabella and simultaneously eliminate what I consider appropriate and desirable riding conditions for my type of riding? Presumably you would prefer that only inexperienced and slow riders like Isabella should have the ability to efficiently ride a bike in Arlington.

[DismalScientist]

@lordofthemark 188110 wrote:

I’m probably going to regret this, but if pedestrians are crossing the street here frequently, shouldn’t the speed limit be 25 mph? And the lanes narrowed to discourage driving faster? A street where experienced riders are uncomfortable taking the lane for a few blocks strikes me as inherently unfriendly to pedestrians and not ideal for what people say this place is. Old Town folks may be pretentious and a lot of them hate bikes but they are mostly on board with being pedestrian friendly. There, I think I’ve expressed what bothers me without using sarcasm subject to misunderstanding.

The speed limit on all of Washington Blvd is 30 mph and is set by VDOT as a primary state highway. The limit should be lowered at least through Westover proper, but getting VDOT to do this for a few blocks seems bureaucratically difficult. Outside of Westover, Washington Blvd is a two lane road going through a purely residential neighborhood without “too much” pedestrian traffic across.

I don’t think there are too many experienced riders that are uncomfortable taking the lane through Westover. The road width through Westover is wider than the rest of Wash Blvd and really taking the lane generally isn’t necessary.

[DismalScientist]

@NickBull 188112 wrote:

As an avid cyclist and cycle commuter, I have to say … I hope they’re not going to sacrifice parking spaces in Westover for cycle paths of any kind. Parking is already scarce. And cyclists commuting through Westover are even scarcer. Not because of any lack of bike paths, but because no one commutes on Washington Blvd. If you want to commute, you commute on the W&OD or Custis, where you’re less likely to get killed. If Westover is your destination, then it’s easy enough to get there on back roads coming from the bike paths or through the neighborhoods.

I literally commute down Washington Blvd. through Westover every day.

Besides the Custis/WOD being parallel 3 blocks to the south, 16th Street is a fine bike route 2 blocks to the north.

[Steve O]

@DismalScientist 188113 wrote:

Why is it necessary or even desirable to make comprehensive, safe and comfortable bike infrastructure everywhere for folks like Isabella and simultaneously eliminate what I consider appropriate and desirable riding conditions for my type of riding? Presumably you would prefer that only inexperienced and slow riders like Isabella should have the ability to efficiently ride a bike in Arlington.

That is correct. I don’t care about you.

[lordofthemark]

1.1 mile to the west of Westover is EFC metro. 1.3 miles to the east is Ballston. Just east of Westover’s retail area is the apt complex that was mentioned above. 2 blocks north of Washington Blvd is VHC, where there has been a big dispute about parking among other things, despite proximity to the metro.

Yet for reasons bureaucratic or otherwise, the speed limit can’t be lowered even from 30 to 25. Even people committed to alternative transportation fear the loss of any parking. (IIRC parking there is free – economists at least shouldn’t be surprised that a free good is scarce). VDOT, the County, and much of the community view the entire corridor from EFC to Ballston as if A. There was no shortage of housing in the region, esp housing inside the beltway and close to transit) and B. We didn’t face a planetary climate crisis. I won’t use the word dystopian, but let’s just say its “problematic”.

The larger problem is not by any means confined to this nabe or to Arlington. Heaven knows I have complaints about attitudes in Alexandria, particularly in Old Town. But I would note I, who ride more slowly and less confidently than many here, have no problem taking the lane on King in OT or on Mt Vernon in Del Ray. Neither is is the more common biking route – both have better parallels. But both are fundamentally oriented around pedestrians. People walk a few blocks to get to stores.(much of Alexandria is not pedestrian friendly, but at least that’s recognized as a problem by City staff, by our more enlightened electeds, and by a growing part of our electorate) This is about something bigger than biking. Its depressing. Half the country thinks global warming is a socialist hoax. The actual socialists, when they first announced a plan based on the urgency of stopping global warming, included in a FAQ their insistence that gas taxes not be increased (they eventually withdrew the FAQ after some shaming over its details)

Think globally. Act locally. “The task is great, and the stakes are high, and the day is short, and the workers are lazy. Yet you must do your part”

[DismalScientist]

The lack of parking is just for the support of local businesses ( which own the lots in back and may own the on-street diagonal parking–so no it’s not “free”) and not for nearby residents. If you eliminate parking, you just drive business to other locations. For God’s sake, it is just a one block business district. This is really not an opportunity to save the world.

[accordioneur]

@lordofthemark 188131 wrote:

1.1 mile to the west of Westover is EFC metro. 1.3 miles to the east is Ballston. Just east of Westover’s retail area is the apt complex that was mentioned above. 2 blocks north of Washington Blvd is VHC, where there has been a big dispute about parking among other things, despite proximity to the metro.

I’m not sure I get your point – is it that the county should make it more pedestrian and cyclist friendly to get from EFC/Ballston to Westover? Right now, to get between EFC and Westover cyclists have a point-to-point link via W&OD and Ohio street. Pedestrians have sidewalks. There’s also the 2A bus. Between Westover and Ballston there’s the W&OD/Custis, there sidewalks and again, the 2A bus. I’m with Dismal – I think there are better uses of the government’s resources than creating redundant infrastructure on what will always be an unpleasant cycling route. My guess is that given the superior alternatives already available, a Washington Blvd cycletrack/PBL/whatever would see too little use to be worth the investment.

[accordioneur]

@lordofthemark 188109 wrote:

My original point was meant to be light (dystopian being obviously absurd) and focused on the complete streets difficulties. I mentioned class only in response to a list of fine retail establishments. I probably shouldn’t have. I can edit my remarks if that is desired. Ok? Peace.

No serious offense taken. Just had to show a little Westapharian pride and defend the nabe. To further lower tensions, I hereby withdraw my proposal to build a wall along the southern border of Arlington.

[consularrider]

@DismalScientist 188134 wrote:

The lack of parking is just for the support of local businesses ( which own the lots in back and may own the on-street diagonal parking–so no it’s not “free”) and not for nearby residents. If you eliminate parking, you just drive business to other locations. For God’s sake, it is just a one block business district. This is really not an opportunity to save the world.

On the occasions where I drive to Westover, I have never, repeat never, had a problem finding a parking space within a half block of where I was going. I’m not sure where this “lack of parking” comes from. Maybe it just refers to the diagonal parking or the small Lost Dog/Stray Cat/Thai Noi parking lot. Maybe problems of Sunday morning for the Farmers market?

[Author]

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