Washington Blvd repaving thru Westover

[DismalScientist]

@dasgeh 188383 wrote:

Not sure where you’re looking, but I studied this very closely when I had to take a kid to Upton hill from Cherrydale with no assist. Washington Blvd is much flatter, particularly in the stretch covering Harrison and Patrick Henry (which makes sense, as you have to go up from Washington to 16th).

Nope. Based on Strava segments: (I assume you are talking eastbound, because both are downhill from Harrison west as Harrison is at the top of the hill.)

Down Yaaawn (Washington Blvd from Greenbrier to Kennilworth) has a 2.0% grade eastbound
(Interestingly, YAAAWN, the reverse segment has a grade of 4.1%, which I think is wrong)

%^%$$#% Speedbumps! (16th Street from Harrison to Jefferson) has a 1.1% grade eastbound.

On the EFC to VHC route, if you were to take Washington Blvd, you should still turn left at Longfellow and take 16th Street to the Hospital, which would only involve 1 block of the study area. Of course, if you were going to VHC from the metro, it probably would make a lot more sense to get off at Ballston rather than EFC.

[DismalScientist]

LOTM (and other): Thinking about (parking or even flexipost) PBLs on residential streets, how does one deal with such prosaic issues as trash day or bus routes? Washington Blvd is a major bus route (2) collecting residents and delivering them to the Ballston metro and back home.

[lordofthemark]

Bus routes

This is not a SFH neighborhood (I guess in this context residential means detached SFHs) but here is one treatment for bus stops

https://www.google.com/maps/@38.8572577,-77.0531933,3a,75y,171.64h,69.77t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sn1pBjnJH7wIEpdCLuHJ-LQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

I believe there are others.

Here is a different (and I think more expensive) approach

https://www.citylab.com/transportation/2015/05/toward-the-peaceful-coexistence-of-buses-and-bikes/394217/

Trash pickup.

Maybe like this? https://www.google.com/maps/@38.9130796,-77.03454,3a,75y,222.49h,79.51t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1surrTKbeWnk6VyVBDFpps2Q!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

I would guess many detached SFH areas have more driveways than 15th Street has intersecting alleyways, so it should be even easier (I mean the trash people manage to get the trash bins around parked cars on streets with on street parking and no bike lane, right?) (though the added driveways add to the difficulties of riding fast, of course)

I would think flexpost protected would be even easier than parking protected, since its easy to pull a trash bin between the flex posts (based on usual flex post spacing?)

[DrP]

@DismalScientist 188401 wrote:

LOTM (and other): Thinking about (parking or even flexipost) PBLs on residential streets, how does one deal with such prosaic issues as trash day or bus routes? Washington Blvd is a major bus route (2) collecting residents and delivering them to the Ballston metro and back home.

Same as they do elsewhere – the rider is screwed. See for example, Army-Navy Drive south and west of Joyce (it curves there). Heading SW, the bike lane is moved towards the travel lanes (there is also a bump out for peds to stand somewhere) and the bus pulls into it there. Heading NE, the bike lanes goes dashed and the bus pulls into the bike lane. I have had to sit and wait for the bus (much like on Fairfax) or go around the bus.

[lordofthemark]

@DrP 188403 wrote:

Same as they do elsewhere – the rider is screwed. See for example, Army-Navy Drive south and west of Joyce (it curves there). Heading SW, the bike lane is moved towards the travel lanes (there is also a bump out for peds to stand somewhere) and the bus pulls into it there. Heading NE, the bike lanes goes dashed and the bus pulls into the bike lane. I have had to sit and wait for the bus (much like on Fairfax) or go around the bus.

yes, I am faced with that choice on Eads. I am faced with the same choice going down 31st street, where there is no bike lane. If I am riding in the right lane on King Street (I often do that from Beauregard to North Hampton) I just wait, because I am not going to go into the left lane on King if I can help it.

Biking in a busy city or dense suburb is what it is (I mean until we go with the whole floating bus stop thing – but I think we need more critical mass of people on bikes to get to that)

[EasyRider]

@lordofthemark 188396 wrote:

What other than the level of parking turnover, makes it different from here, say?

https://www.google.com/maps/@38.8586265,-77.05331,3a,75y,307.05h,73.05t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sCmi6h3TpJQD6zF1DNVB17g!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

I mean don’t parking protected bike lanes always involve people crossing the bike lane to access their parked cars?

Yes, that is the nature of a PBL. The level of parking turnover isn’t trivial; the more turnover there is and the more the PBL is used, the more potential for collisions. How frequently pedestrians are popping out in between parked cars and crossing the PBL depends on what the neighborhood like.

In the case of Westover, the north side of the street is lined with a half-dozen businesses that people typically spend about 10 minutes in. So foot traffic and cars coming and going is pretty frequent, especially on weekends when people run errands (and ride bikes). Someone earlier in the thread mentioned they had never had trouble getting a parking space in Westover. And yet those businesses are thriving. That is because there is a lot of turnover. People are constantly taking and leaving those parking spots.

I’m not as familiar with the stretch you link to, but it appears to fit about half as many cars as Westover. The entire block is occupied by Crystal Towers, a large apartment building with an onsite parking garage, so my guess is that residents don’t cross the PBL too often. Finally, it looks to me like the payment kiosk visible on the sidewalk states that the parking time max is 12 hours. If so, that’s another indication to me that the potential for collisions between pedestrians and bicycles is pretty low. People are parking there for hours, and there apparently isn’t enough demand to lower the max time.

[dasgeh]

@DismalScientist 188400 wrote:

Nope. Based on Strava segments: (I assume you are talking eastbound, because both are downhill from Harrison west as Harrison is at the top of the hill.)

As you note, Strava is notoriously unreliable. And to clarify, I did not mean that there is no point at which Washington has a steeper grade than 16th. However, taking Washington between, say, Quincy and Sycamore, involves less climbing overall than taking 16th + lots of turns + 22nd

[dasgeh]

@DismalScientist 188401 wrote:

LOTM (and other): Thinking about (parking or even flexipost) PBLs on residential streets, how does one deal with such prosaic issues as trash day or bus routes? Washington Blvd is a major bus route (2) collecting residents and delivering them to the Ballston metro and back home.

Just like on Veitch, where the PBL goes in front of SFHs and townhomes and on a bus route. You have breaks in the protected-ness for bus stops, and you deal with 2 weeks of annoying while residents and trash collectors learn how to do trash pick up around a PBL.

[dasgeh]

@EasyRider 188408 wrote:

Yes, that is the nature of a PBL. The level of parking turnover isn’t trivial; the more turnover there is and the more the PBL is used, the more potential for collisions. How frequently pedestrians are popping out in between parked cars and crossing the PBL depends on what the neighborhood like.

In the case of Westover, the north side of the street is lined with a half-dozen businesses that people typically spend about 10 minutes in. So foot traffic and cars coming and going is pretty frequent, especially on weekends when people run errands (and ride bikes). Someone earlier in the thread mentioned they had never had trouble getting a parking space in Westover. And yet those businesses are thriving. That is because there is a lot of turnover. People are constantly taking and leaving those parking spots.

There are also a TON of parking spots in the rear.

Anyone biking on the block by the shops would be advised to go slow enough to stop and to be hyper aware — if you’re in the travel lanes, cars will be pulling out and people cross the street a fair amount; if it’s a PBL, people will be crossing it as well. I think the latter is preferable, because I rather be in a crash with a person than a car, and either way, this is going to be a block where you just gotta slow down.

[DrP]

About early-August they repaved Washington Blvd. I was pleasantly surprised with the speed in which VDOT did it (a few nights scraping it up and a few to pave). I have had a theory that there is one road line painter (or is that layer since they seem to not be paint) in the entire state of VA. The work on Washington Blvd supports that. Almost two weeks after it was paved they laid yellow lines and the white line demarking the parallel parking along the road (not the diagonal parking in Westover and no handicap markings in Westover). Then nothing for over a week. Late last week they got the lines for the bike lanes, but no bike markings, put in and the pedestrian markings in Westover, but not the George Mason end. I am hoping they finish this coming week, but I have my doubts. Crossing the road has been challenging lately, despite the pedestrian signs. I cannot even remember if the plan was for the front-in or back-in parking in Westover.

[lordofthemark]

Yesterday I was riding a CaBi in this area. I rode WB through the retail area, then bak EB all the way to the CaBi station near George Mason.

Note – going WB, I did not notice the sharrows (may have been preoccupied), and rode closer to the parking. I bet quite a few people do that. Hmmm.

EB in the bike lanes, at about the time Swanson lets out. Another rider (a youngster) was going WB in the EB lane. I am not sure why. Maybe he didn’t want to deal with the section by the angle parking where there is no bike lane. Or maybe he had a destination on the south side of Washington, and found crossing Washington intimidating. He did NOT take the Custis, obviously. Hmmm.

OTOH, the number of kids riding bikes from Swanson was heartening.

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