Virginia Legislation Action Thread

[eminva]

Just an FYI re: Gallows @ W&OD:

I have served as a bicycle counter at that intersection on several occasions, which means I’ve sat there for two hour shifts watching cycle after cycle. Being a daily W&OD commuter, I was curious about just how long that light is, so I timed it. Here is what I observed. The light is green for Gallows/red for the W&OD for 2 minutes 30 seconds. Then it reverses for about 15 seconds. Repeat ad infinitum.

Time of day, day of week, didn’t matter. There is a call button that a trail user can activate, but it makes no difference — the cycle was exactly the same regardless of whether a user pushed the button. The button is a placebo.

Liz

[baiskeli]

@eminva 44652 wrote:

The button is a placebo.

And the proof is that no matter how many people are already waiting, anyone who reaches the signal is going to push that button, just in case. I can’t stop myself.

[GuyContinental]

@eminva 44652 wrote:

Just an FYI re: Gallows @ W&OD:
The light is green for Gallows/red for the W&OD for 2 minutes 30 seconds. Then it reverses for about 15 seconds. Repeat ad infinitum.
Liz

Boy does it seem longer… like watching water boil I suppose. I bet that the Van Buren light is similar but standing there in the cold being willed to cross by a LEO makes it seem much much longer.

[DaveK]

@ShawnoftheDread 44646 wrote:

The statute doesn’t mention a pedestrian signal at all. If you’re using a crosswalk without waiting for a walk signal, you’re not crossing “on a steady red light.”

I wish you luck. Let us know how it goes.

They never define the type of “red light” they’re talking about. A red signal can be in the form of a solid red hand, a red ball, a red arrow, or a red bike, maybe others if I can think of them. Since they don’t specify, it would logically have to apply to any one. A pedestrian signal is only one part of a larger signal system. Just because the vehicles get a standard R-Y-G signal doesn’t mean I as a cyclist have to obey the one for my approach any more or less, regardless of I’m with the vehicles in the road or on an intersecting trail. I don’t ride the W&OD much but if push came to shove I’d love to be the test case for this.

[ShawnoftheDread]

@DaveK 44705 wrote:

They never define the type of “red light” they’re talking about. A red signal can be in the form of a solid red hand, a red ball, a red arrow, or a red bike, maybe others if I can think of them. Since they don’t specify, it would logically have to apply to any one. A pedestrian signal is only one part of a larger signal system. Just because the vehicles get a standard R-Y-G signal doesn’t mean I as a cyclist have to obey the one for my approach any more or less, regardless of I’m with the vehicles in the road or on an intersecting trail. I don’t ride the W&OD much but if push came to shove I’d love to be the test case for this.

I think you’re switching terms to bolster your case. They never use the term “red signal,” and “red light” is not the same as a “do not walk” pedestrian signal.

[baiskeli]

@DaveK 44705 wrote:

They never define the type of “red light” they’re talking about. A red signal can be in the form of a solid red hand, a red ball, a red arrow, or a red bike, maybe others if I can think of them. Since they don’t specify, it would logically have to apply to any one. A pedestrian signal is only one part of a larger signal system. Just because the vehicles get a standard R-Y-G signal doesn’t mean I as a cyclist have to obey the one for my approach any more or less, regardless of I’m with the vehicles in the road or on an intersecting trail. I don’t ride the W&OD much but if push came to shove I’d love to be the test case for this.

You should read the law in full before you test it:

http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504.exe?000+cod+46.2-833

[bobco85]

@baiskeli 44711 wrote:

You should read the law in full before you test it:

http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504.exe?000+cod+46.2-833

The part that confuses me is where the law says:

Notwithstanding any other provision of law, if a driver of a motorcycle or moped or a bicycle rider approaches an intersection that is controlled by a traffic light, the driver or rider may proceed through the intersection on a steady red light only if the driver or rider (i) comes to a full and complete stop at the intersection for two complete cycles of the traffic light…

Technically the intersection is being controlled by a traffic light, but the law does not explicitly state that this does not apply to crosswalks. Also, is the crosswalk/trail treated as a roadway or a pedestrian crossing? If it’s considered a pedestrian crossing, there is the law about pedestrians entering a crosswalk in disregard of oncoming traffic that could apply.

Of course, there’s also the issue of defending oneself in a case like this. Would the police officer have to prove that in this situation (and other situations involving red lights) you did not wait the full 2 minutes or 2 cycles (whichever is shorter) before crossing when giving a ticket?

[mstone]

The crosswalk is not a road. That is also why the stop signs are generally illegal.

[baiskeli]

@bobco85 44719 wrote:

Technically the intersection is being controlled by a traffic light, but the law does not explicitly state that this does not apply to crosswalks.

The law also says:

“driver or rider may proceed through the intersection on a steady red light”

which, combined with the context of the rest of the law and the reference to motorcycles, pretty clearly shows that the intent is to apply to roadway traffic only.

You could make a case here, but I wouldn’t want to make one in a real court.

[Author]

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