VA Elizabeth Furnace – Access Issues on Hazard Mill and Page Valley Roads

[AFHokie]

According to USDA topo maps, both roads are in within the Lee Ranger District of the George Washington and Jefferson National Forest. Page Valley is also listed as state route 717.

Some of that area is depicted on the USDA topo maps as Non-National Forest system lands within the National Forest so some areas could be private, however a state route is clearly not.
Check http://data.fs.USDA.gov/geodata/rastergateway/states-regions/grid_zoom.php?regionID=r8&gridSrc=38078

The two map panels you want are:
384507815: Bentonville
384507822: Rileyville

I’d also contact the forest service: 1-888-265-0019 or 540-265-5100.
They should be able to clarify land boundaries in the area & they should want to know about locals running people off public lands.

[AFHokie]

One more, Hazard Mill Rd looks like the only way to get in/out of the Hazard Mill Recreation Area which makes it very doubtful that it’s a private road.

[mstone]

If someone’s waving a gun around, does it really matter whether they’re right?

[Raymo853]

@AFHokie 137073 wrote:

One more, Hazard Mill Rd looks like the only way to get in/out of the Hazard Mill Recreation Area which makes it very doubtful that it’s a private road.

Plus there are a lot of VRBO type cabins back there, a lot of trail running events, and a good number paddlers.

[Raymo853]

@AFHokie 137073 wrote:

One more, Hazard Mill Rd looks like the only way to get in/out of the Hazard Mill Recreation Area which makes it very doubtful that it’s a private road.

I know these folks are wrong, but that is no defense vs firearms.

[AFHokie]

@Raymo853 137089 wrote:

I know these folks are wrong, but that is no defense vs firearms.

That’s why you really need to contact the Forest Service. Part of their mission is law enforcement within National Forests.

[Raymo853]

@AFHokie 137095 wrote:

That’s why you really need to contact the Forest Service. Part of their mission is law enforcement within National Forests.

I am going to this upcoming week. Have also reached out to the H Burgh community to gather their stories as well. MORE and MTBR have not had much of a response yet.

[mstone]

Good time to get a gopro if you don’t already have one

[Raymo853]

@mstone 137105 wrote:

Good time to get a gopro if you don’t already have one

Ah no.

[mstone]

@Raymo853 137202 wrote:

Ah no.

Why not? It seems like law enforcement could do a lot more with evidence.

[Raymo853]

@mstone 137203 wrote:

Why not? It seems like law enforcement could do a lot more with evidence.

Basically if the folks are out there actively and falsely claiming it is private, I plan to just stay away. The last thing I would want to do is film them possibly ramping up the situation further if they notice. I also have an overall aversion to GoPros and the like, while understanding how video evidence can be very helpful post confrontation. Unless of course you are dead and buried somewhere in the woods.

[mstone]

@Raymo853 137209 wrote:

Basically if the folks are out there actively and falsely claiming it is private, I plan to just stay away. The last thing I would want to do is film them possibly ramping up the situation further if they notice. I also have an overall aversion to GoPros and the like, while understanding how video evidence can be very helpful post confrontation. Unless of course you are dead and buried somewhere in the woods.

I guess that depends on whether you think they are good ol’ boys running off the city slickers with a bit of fun or actual psychopaths planning to kill people. The former is probably a heck of a lot more likely than the latter. Just not going there is a perfectly valid option, I’d just film if I was going. (And I certainly wouldn’t draw a lot of attention to it, just deescalate and leave and follow up with LE later.)

[Kar]

I live out here, and yes, Hazard Mill Road is private. The state only owns a very short portion of the road from the Indian Hollow Road/Panhandle Road intersection. Check Warren County’s GIS site– you’ll see the property lines. (Google Maps and the USGS topo quads erroneously show USFS property as extending much farther than it actually does.)

I believe this access issue is why the Hazard Mill campground (which is on USFS land) was abandoned many years ago. Many trailheads that lead through private property depend on the goodwill of the landowners… and obviously the Hazard Mill Road landowners don’t have a lot of goodwill here anymore. So please don’t try to access the old campground that way.

As to the various Page Valley Road access points, I think these are all on public lands– Habron Gap Trail, Indian Grave Ridge Trail, and Tolliver Trail (which starts off as an old logging road). I have never had any issues (as a runner) accessing these trails or running along Page Valley Road itself.

On the Fort Valley side of Milford Gap, though, there are some land ownership issues over there that led to the abandonment of the west side of the Milford Gap Trail some years ago. Technically you may be in the clear to head up to the ridge from that side, but you may have issues with some of the locals, and I’m not sure there’s a legal place to park a car anymore.

[consularrider]

@Kar 137269 wrote:

I live out here, and yes, Hazard Mill Road is private. The state only owns a very short portion of the road from the Indian Hollow Road/Panhandle Road intersection. Check Warren County’s GIS site– you’ll see the property lines. (Google Maps and the USGS topo quads erroneously show USFS property as extending much farther than it actually does.)

I believe this access issue is why the Hazard Mill campground (which is on USFS land) was abandoned many years ago. Many trailheads that lead through private property depend on the goodwill of the landowners… and obviously the Hazard Mill Road landowners don’t have a lot of goodwill here anymore. So please don’t try to access the old campground that way.

As to the various Page Valley Road access points, I think these are all on public lands– Habron Gap Trail, Indian Grave Ridge Trail, and Tolliver Trail (which starts off as an old logging road). I have never had any issues (as a runner) accessing these trails or running along Page Valley Road itself.

On the Fort Valley side of Milford Gap, though, there are some land ownership issues over there that led to the abandonment of the west side of the Milford Gap Trail some years ago. Technically you may be in the clear to head up to the ridge from that side, but you may have issues with some of the locals, and I’m not sure there’s a legal place to park a car anymore.

Thanks for bringing a local perspective, and welcome to the Forum.

[Raymo853]

Very glad he mentioned the Warren County GIS work. They have a web map vierer, http://warrengis.org/Flex/index.html, that shows all of the parcel data for the area around Millford Gap trail and Hazard Mills Road. As a guy that worked with GIS outreach in VA to small municipalities back in the late 90’s, I am so thrilled to see this. Even if it is in ESRI’s Flex Viewer.

It does show many of the parcels encompassing the start of Hazard Mills are US Gov. There is a small one on one side at the beginning with Indian Head Road (Culler’s Farm) and not one for a while down the road (Palmer) however that one does include both side of the road. As I suspected, many of the farms closer to Indian Head are leasing their land form the US Gov, and do not own the land, nor really have rights to bar access on established throughways. Palmer may have a case, however, not if those throughways were established before their parcels were set.

I plan to see if there is a download or source for the parcel data, there should be since they are offering it as a REST service.

I will also look for Page county parcel data later.

[Author]

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