VA/DC cyclists in dire need of more education and cycling culture

[DaveK]

Everyone loves to be scolded and generalized by someone who’s new to the area. Let’s see… “cycling culture” means not running down and killing pedestrians while blasting through a red light at Market and Castro at full speed to gain eternal glory on the Internet. Am I doing this right? I really wouldn’t know though. I should ask those of us who do have a cycling culture.

Now that we’re off on the right foot, welcome to the area. It’s unfortunate that you had such a terrible introduction, but spend a little more time out and about and you’ll see that there are a lot of really great people and places to know and to visit by bike.

[dasgeh]

Welcome! Definitely try out Capital Bikeshare (CaBi) for short trips, — it’s the best way to get around town — and ask around if you’re up for longer rides. There are some great rides around here.

Sorry about your experience thus far. I assure you that the actions of a few (as we call them) ELITE cyclists are not indicative of everyone who bikes around here. Unfortunately, they reflect poorly on us all. On this forum, you’re preaching to the choir — we have lots of conversations about calling passes and being a PAL. We also type about how to deal with those who are making us look bad. There’s no easy answer, unfortunately.

I hope the DBag who hit you stopped. If you remember anything about him/her (kit, bike), there’s a chance we could track them down, at least for a scolding. Broken fingers are no fun.

Hopefully the rest of your trip will be more enjoyable.

[NicDiesel]

@camomansf 55619 wrote:

DC/VA riders, “cycling culture” means cultivating a relationship not only with motorists but with pedestrians and joggers alike in order to create alliances. Riding defensively against people who are not on a bike only adds more to the angst that already exists between cyclists and non-cyclists and as I cyclist myself, I find it insulting to those of us who do have a cycling culture.

Thanks for the lecture but the DC vortex is over-saturated with clueless needledicks, whether on bikes, in cars, or on feet. Wholesale change isn’t going to happen so just be alert and plan for the worst.

@camomansf 55619 wrote:

My question to you is: how can you expect for non-cyclists to identify with the issues you might be facing in DC/VA as cyclists, when you don’t even respect those who are not on bikes at any given moment?

Don’t judge everyone on a bike based on the moronic behavior of a few. I’ve had more than my fair share of run-ins with overaggressive ELITE riders that have passed way too close and almost clipped a tire. It sucks but you just have to be aware and not get surprised by the silent ELITEs.

[ronwalf]

I hear you drive. California drivers killed 2,715 people last year. How can you expect non-drivers to identify with your highway infrastructure needs, when you kill so many thousands of people every year?

…

…

Yeah. That wasn’t a question. It was a rant (I hope you feel better). BikeArlington and WABA do educate cyclists to be predictable, aware, and lawful (PAL). Just search this forum for ‘bell’ to see how into it we get.

[baiskeli]

While you’re mad at DC cyclists, people in San Fran are mad at you:

http://blogs.sfweekly.com/thesnitch/2010/05/everyone_hates_cyclists.php

We may have different cycling cultures perhaps. Maybe yours is a little better. I don’t blame you for being mad after what happened to you. But it’s a mistake to talk to us as if we’re all one big monolithic group of cyclists who all think and act the same. You should know that. There are people in your city cursing all cyclists there right now from their cars, and that’s not fair either.

Most of us here on this board are responsible cyclists, which is why we’re here. We agree that cyclists, and everyone else on the roads and trails and sidewalks, need to be more safe and considerate here. We’re happy to use your experience as an example of why.

There are lots more noobs out there, which is great for the future of cycling, but it means more don’t know what they’re doing. I have observed a big dropoff in calling passes since my early days of cycling here many years ago, for instance. I’ve settled on a response to those who don’t call their passes but I felt they should have – I yell “on my left!” Maybe you could try that. Even if they don’t get it, it can make you feel better, and it beats cursing them.

[mstone]

“Cycling culture”? Get real–it’s quite possible, admirable even, to ride a bike without joining a cult.

Some people are jerks, welcome to real life. I refuse to take responsibility for the actions of someone I do not know in an event I did not witness. For myself, I defer to pedestrians, signal when passing, and leave ample space. When I see someone exhibiting egregiously unsafe behavior, I say something. What more do you reasonably expect me to do?

But, congratulations. You probably found the most disproportionately “bike cultured” forum in the DC area, with a disproportionately safe user community (including bike safety instructors, urban design engineers, cycling infrastructure advocates, and well-known advocacy personalities) and proceeded scold them. The odds that any of the people you’re pissed off about frequent this board are fairly low.

[americancyclo]

Welcome to the DC Metro Area!

I moved here in 2008 after 9 years in SF and the Bay Area. There are definitely more “Type A” folks here. It’s also a much larger geographic area. I’m sure you’re aware that SF is 7×7, but here within the beltway is 16×16 and a lot of folks ride in from farther away than that, so there’s a bit more land to contend with, and thus, a lot more people of all types. http://goo.gl/maps/pmvm4 To put that in perspective, it’s about the same amount of land between 280 and 101 from North Beach to Redwood City.

We do have great cycling/running paths around here though, so I’d try to make the most of your three months here.
How long until your finger is healed?

What lessons have you learned about reaching out to commuters of all modes in SF that you think might work well here?
What tactics of earning or engendering respect have worked well for the SFBC?

[creadinger]

@americancyclo 55646 wrote:

Welcome to the DC Metro Area!

I moved here in 2008 after 9 years in SF and the Bay Area. There are definitely more “Type A” folks here.

Yeah, there are just big differences between west coast people and east coast people. I have only been in SF once, last month for a wedding. And it was hard to put a finger on it, but after walking around Oakland and SF, the people were just different. More people were more laid back, and I’ve never had so many odd interactions or random strangers try to start up a conversation with me. We didn’t see many hipsters unfortunately. My wife’s sister went to grad school at Berkeley and had similar experiences.

I would guess that camoman would have a similar, disappointing experience if he was working in NYC, Philadelphia or Boston. DC probably has a slightly different version of the entitled jerk than those cities but it’s all the similar east coast culture.

[hozn]

@camomansf 55619 wrote:

DC/VA riders, “cycling culture” means cultivating a relationship not only with motorists but with pedestrians and joggers alike in order to create alliances. Riding defensively against people who are not on a bike only adds more to the angst that already exists between cyclists and non-cyclists and as I cyclist myself, I find it insulting to those of us who do have a cycling culture.

In general, the people you are addressing here aren’t on this forum, so you’re only liable to annoy all those people here who have repeatedly voiced the same sentiments (granted, in a less patronizing way).

It’s kinda like jumping onto a raw food forum and bemoaning how much beef the local population eats.

[mstone]

@americancyclo 55646 wrote:

I moved here in 2008 after 9 years in SF and the Bay Area. There are definitely more “Type A” folks here. It’s also a much larger geographic area.

And for all that, the DC area probably has less dedicated bike/ped infrastructure. There are very few routes for long-distance bike commuters that aren’t also (fairly narrow) recreational jogging/walking trails, which is bound to lead to conflict. My experience in SF is that it is easier to find places with paths adjacent to bikeable roads, which means that modes can separate a bit. (That said, it’s also a bit selective to say that bikes & peds & cars & dogs & cats all live happily together in SF.)

[KLizotte]

I’m sorry to hear of your awful experience as a new arrival in our city. It should be noted that as long time residents of the nation’s capitol we have to deal with bad cyclist / ped / driver behavior all the time because so many of the people out on the streets are tourists and don’t know the rules or where they are going. Ask any long-time metro user how frustrating it is to constantly say “please stand on the right” on the escalator.

Please use your anger in a constructive manner by 1) learning from the mistakes of others, 2) engaging cyclists you see on the street who do not ride safely, 3) writing to your elected officials to ask that more biking infrastructure be built that separates cyclists from other modes, and 4) ask public officials to better educate all modes on rights and responsibilities.

You may already do all of the above but a letter to local DC officials (e.g., DDOT) and the National Park Service stating that while all of the cyclists in DC is encouraging, building more cycletracks, bike lanes, and signage would go a long way to making the city more tourist friendly.

It should also be noted that cycling participation has increased expotentially over the past few years, esp with the advent of BikeShare. I think we are reaching the point of cycling congestion in lots of areas of town which only adds to the stress and frustration.

Whenever I get frustrated by the dickheads out there, I think of all the kind folk that have helped me on the trails and this forum, the drivers that stopped to let me pass when they didn’t have to, the peds that acknowledged my call, etc.

The good folks outnumber the bad.

[KelOnWheels]

@camomansf 55619 wrote:

In two weeks I’ve been here I’ve noticed that cyclists like to ride really close to people in spite of the clearance they might have on their side. This morning while crossing the Key bridge from Rosslyn to Georgetown (sporting my new finger-metal-cast) I noticed it again: it doesn’t matter how close to the railing I walk and much clearance I leave for cyclists most will ride so close (not even announcing “left or right of you”) it pretty much is an accident waiting to happen.

I have to wear this metal-cast in my finger now, take it off at work while I code, put it back in after work. Not funny.

Ouch! Sorry that one of your first experiences in the area had to be getting hit by a jerkfacey ELITE (as we like to call them on the forum). I’d be wanting to have a good rant myself. Don’t worry, we can take it

The folks on the forum here tend to be very safety minded and we have long thoughtful discussions about calling passes and bells and the best way to share the MUTs. We like being PALs. (Predictable, Alert, Lawful).

We also like bikes, bacon, bikes, beer, bikes, coffee, and bikes.

There’s a happy hour at Circa tomorrow if you’d like to meet some non-jerkfacey cyclists.

We also meet up most weeks for Friday Coffee Club – if you’re working in DC hit up ME Swing Coffee House after 7 AM and you’ll usually find some nice folks hanging out before work.

Hope you heal up quick and can get back out on a bike soon!

[baiskeli]

Now that is a good idea, Kel – inviting him to the happy hour.

Hope you can make it, camomansf. We’ll be easy on you, promise. You’re one of us. I’m sure we would like to hear more about cycling in SF.

Here’s a google map to Circa: http://goo.gl/maps/DERFv (It’s the one in downtown DC, NOT the one in Arlington).

[bobco85]

@camomansf 55619 wrote:

(everything stated)

Whew, that’s a lot to take in! I hope this is not a hit-and-run type post and that you are open to discussion and will return to this thread. What happened to you is terrible, and I don’t fault you for feeling the way that you do about the situation. I hope you heal quickly and in full. However, I must admit that I found some of the comments in your rant to be condescending, especially in your generalization of cyclists and false claim of a lack of cycling culture in this area. (Side note: you totally forgot the MD part of DC/VA/MD; they have cyclists, too!)

If you are interested in learning about our bike culture, look into the Washington Area Bicyclist Association and this forum for good starting places. Come to a Third Thursday Happy Hour (the next one is tomorrow) and talk to some folks. As an East Coast city, the Capital city, and tri-district area (2 states and a district), things tend to work differently around here when it comes to many aspects of cycling (civic involvement, infrastructure, laws, community, etc.). Perhaps a more positive interaction will change your judgement of this area.

P.S. – I hope you can make it tomorrow, because I plan to settle my personal vendetta against San Francisco due to a week-long trip I made 2 years ago where I KNOW someone (was it you?) purposely left a fog machine on the whole time and left me unable to view the whole Golden Gate Bridge while I was there :rolleyes:

[baiskeli]

@bobco85 55661 wrote:

P.S. – I hope you can make it tomorrow, because I plan to settle my personal vendetta against San Francisco due to a week-long trip I made 2 years ago where I KNOW someone (was it you?) purposely left a fog machine on the whole time and left me unable to view the whole Golden Gate Bridge while I was there :rolleyes:

Pretty soon he’s going to to encounter our invisible version of fog – 140% relative humidity.

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