USADA charges Armstrong with doping violations

[Dirt]

I think a many, many, many were, Mr. Fried. And lots are getting nabbed even when they haven’t ever tested positive. There are a LOT of positive things happening in the peloton these days. There are some people (former dopers and those who I personally think have been clean all along) who I think are very credible in helping race clean. There are some, who haven’t changed their ways and are doing all they can to fly under the radar of the testing regiments.

[Dirt]

I can’t say what I want to…. Ask me about this post some time when we’re just riding around.

I love y’all!

Pete

[PotomacCyclist]

@Certifried 29690 wrote:

What do you think about the rest of the peloton though? Are they all just as guilty? Not trying to start anything, honestly interested. I never really followed TDF all that closely (gasp!)

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2

Several of the top finishers during the years that Lance won have since tested positive or been caught up in various PED scandals. I don’t remember the exact list but I believe that if the UCI and Amaury do vacate the titles, most of the 2nd place finishers have also been involved with PEDs at some point in their careers. Perhaps not necessarily in the year that they will now win, but I suspect that they would have been doping in those years.

It’s a mess. Unless everyone wants to go back and investigate all of the top finishers (maybe the top 5 or 10), revoking the standings of a single rider doesn’t lead to a satisfying conclusion. I don’t remember if I already posted this above, but other mainstream sports have had similar PED problems. And yet none of those organizations have revoked championships. For example, perhaps the majority of the superstars in baseball were doping during the 1980s to the 2000s and even today (Manny Ramirez, Melky Cabrera). Some have tested positive and others have been revealed to have been deeply involved with steroid operations (BALCO). Football didn’t even test for growth hormone, which is a major gap in their testing regime. (Just look at how large the entire league has gotten over the last 30 years. It’s not all training and improved diet. And they don’t test all of the high school and college players, when those athletes have a chance to start adding bulk and strength.) Olympic track and field has had its problems in the past.

Not every cyclist in the peloton was doping during those years, but yes, many were, as proved by various tests and investigations. It’s still going on today, but perhaps it’s not as widespread. Alberto Contador just finished up a suspension. Frank Schleck tested positive this year. But observers also note that modern cyclists don’t attack on the massive climbs the way they used to, possibly because of the lack of pharmaceutical assistance.

[Certifried]

@Certifried 29378 wrote:

Few will care by then, if they do at all right now.

I think this is a good example of how the “general non-cycling public” feels. I didn’t really think about this statement much when I wrote it. Like I said above, I never followed cycling super closely, other than passing interest in the TdF for a year or two at Lance’s peak. Reading some of the opinions (mostly strong ones, as posted above) is making me seriously re-consider my opinion.

At least one thing will definitely come of this, I think there is going to be some (more) serious effort to “clean up” cycling.

[krazygl00]

@PotomacCyclist 29699 wrote:

Several of the top finishers during the years that Lance won have since tested positive or been caught up in various PED scandals. I don’t remember the exact list but I believe that if the UCI and Amaury do vacate the titles, most of the 2nd place finishers have also been involved with PEDs at some point in their careers. Perhaps not necessarily in the year that they will now win, but I suspect that they would have been doping in those years.

It’s a mess. Unless everyone wants to go back and investigate all of the top finishers (maybe the top 5 or 10), revoking the standings of a single rider doesn’t lead to a satisfying conclusion. I don’t remember if I already posted this above, but other mainstream sports have had similar PED problems. And yet none of those organizations have revoked championships. For example, perhaps the majority of the superstars in baseball were doping during the 1980s to the 2000s and even today (Manny Ramirez, Melky Cabrera). Some have tested positive and others have been revealed to have been deeply involved with steroid operations (BALCO). Football didn’t even test for growth hormone, which is a major gap in their testing regime. (Just look at how large the entire league has gotten over the last 30 years. It’s not all training and improved diet. And they don’t test all of the high school and college players, when those athletes have a chance to start adding bulk and strength.) Olympic track and field has had its problems in the past.

Not every cyclist in the peloton was doping during those years, but yes, many were, as proved by various tests and investigations. It’s still going on today, but perhaps it’s not as widespread. Alberto Contador just finished up a suspension. Frank Schleck tested positive this year. But observers also note that modern cyclists don’t attack on the massive climbs the way they used to, possibly because of the lack of pharmaceutical assistance.

This is why I think the most important thing that needs to be done — and something that I think would definitely help the sport — is to institute rules that would allow finality of decision. In other words, championships need to be “certified”: the governing board(s) need to say that, as of a certain point in time we have no evidence (or not enough) and no reason to suspect any foul play, therefore the outcome of the race is final and nothing can ever change that, for better or worse. And preferably, that needs to happen before the race. One of the things that rubs me the wrong way about all of this is that the people coming forward with evidence and accusations were right there at the genesis of it all. There really needs to be 1. a genuine effort to hear and honor all claims and 2. a definite point at which, if claims have not been brought or show no merit, all discussion is closed. A “forever hold your peace” clause.

[PotomacCyclist]

Here’s an interesting excerpt from a blog post, written by U.S. marathoner Meb Keflezighi (2004 Olympic silver medalist, 2012 4th place finish). Meb is describing his training this year and then his thoughts during the Olympic marathon itself:

“Then about a mile later, I spotted a green jersey about 35 seconds ahead. It was my friend Marilson Dos
Santos of Brazil. I noticed him looking back. I know the feeling of hitting the wall in a marathon and so
I wanted to capitalize on this opportunity and try to solidify a 4th place finish. I started working toward
a new goal, I think I can get him. I first needed to drop the Japanese runner who has been running with
me most of the way. I felt it was possible to catch Dos Santos. I was going to be satisfied with my fifth
place finish, but then something came to mind; drugs. If any of the top three get caught down the road
with a positive drug test, then the 4th place guy gets promoted to Bronze. In that case, I definitely want
to be that guy who finished 4th. You never know now-a-days. This is not an accusation against those
that medaled in the marathon, it was just my motivation for digging deep to get that 4th spot. My words
for the medalists today are the same as my interview after the race: “As a Silver Medalist in 2004, I know
how that feels, so I congratulate those people who finished first, second, and third.” Congratulations
Stephen Kiprotich, Abel Kirui, and Wilson Kipsang!”

He hadn’t thought out this as a race strategy beforehand. These thoughts just popped into his head toward the end of the Olympic marathon. As he said, “You never know now-a-days.”

Meb thought about aiming for another Olympic marathon medal but then he had to take 3 weeks off in the spring because of injury. At that point, he changed his goals to just arriving at the starting line healthy. But he was doing better than expected (as the other two American runners dropped out almost simultaneously because of their own injuries).

http://marathonmeb.com/mebs-words/

[mstone]

Well, all I know is that I have to read the snob to keep up with the real doping scandals: http://bikesnobnyc.blogspot.com/2012/07/crossing-line-when-freds-go-bad.html

Why is the mainstream media covering this up?

[Mark Blacknell]

@krazygl00 29725 wrote:

This is why I think the most important thing that needs to be done — and something that I think would definitely help the sport — is to institute rules that would allow finality of decision. In other words, championships need to be “certified”: the governing board(s) need to say that, as of a certain point in time we have no evidence (or not enough) and no reason to suspect any foul play, therefore the outcome of the race is final and nothing can ever change that, for better or worse. And preferably, that needs to happen before the race. One of the things that rubs me the wrong way about all of this is that the people coming forward with evidence and accusations were right there at the genesis of it all. There really needs to be 1. a genuine effort to hear and honor all claims and 2. a definite point at which, if claims have not been brought or show no merit, all discussion is closed. A “forever hold your peace” clause.

All of that pretty much exists. http://www.wada-ama.org/

Also, with respect to “Now there’s going to be a serious effort to clean up cycling”, we had that in 98 (Festina). In 2003 (Oil for Drugs). In 2006 (Puerto). In 2007 (Floyd). 2008 (Ricco, the Dumbest (@#@#@# on the Planet). In 2010 (Spanish Beef!). Etc. Look for a list of cycling doping cases, and you’ll see it start in 1890-something and continue unbroken until today. That’s a lot to overcome.

One hopeful difference with the present round is that we’re actually pushing out some of the big/bad actors for life. No more Armstrong, no more Bruyneel, no more Ferrari (a doctor closely associated with doping), etc. So it’s the enablers, and not just the riders, that are getting hit, now. It’s about time. As I was mentioning the other day, there are a couple more that really need to strung up to make this stick – Pat McQuaid (head of UCI, and – in my view – certainly a co-conspirator of Armstrong/Bruyneel) and Hein Verbruggen (think Godfather).

Do that, and I’ll actually think it’s possible that there’s a “new day” coming.

All that said?

I love cycling.

[Dirt]

@Mark Blacknell 29748 wrote:

with respect to “Now there’s going to be a serious effort to clean up cycling”, we had that in 98 (Festina). In 2003 (Oil for Drugs). In 2006 (Puerto). In 2007 (Floyd). 2008 (Ricco, the Dumbest (@#@#@# on the Planet). In 2010 (Spanish Beef!). Etc. Look for a list of cycling doping cases, and you’ll see it start in 1890-something and continue unbroken until today. That’s a lot to overcome.

1) No, we really mean it this time.
b) Finally there’s someone that makes me feel like an intellectual. His name is Riccardo Ricco…. If you’re ever in Milan, I hear he’s teaching some kick-ass spinning classes at the Italian version of Bally’s Fitness.
iii) See you at Hains Point tonight?

Rock on, people.

[Tim Kelley]

@Dirt 29753 wrote:

iii) See you at Hains Point tonight?

I’m in. I’ll be riding the “fancy bike” as my wife likes to call it.

[Dirt]

@Tim Kelley 29774 wrote:

I’m in. I’ll be riding the “fancy bike” as my wife likes to call it.

I’ll be riding an anchor with fat tires and 25-30 pounds of stuff hanging off it.

[Author]

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