U Street accident

[lordofthemark]

@JorgeGortex 53011 wrote:

. With housing prices etc. its not feasible to ask someone in outer Fairfax, Woodbridge, etc. to commute in by bike. At least not everyday, certainly.
.

I live in fairfax. Our county is investing a very considerable amount of $$ in the new Silver line – I certainly hope SOME people in outer Fairfax will use it to get to Arlco and DC. There are already lots who so use the Orange line. PWC has both VRE (I hear the trains fill up) and express buses to Arlington and DC. Biking is hardly the only alternative to cars for commuting from the outer suburbs to Arlington and DC.

[DismalScientist]

@lordofthemark 53025 wrote:

pardon, but arent the vast majority of those passing through Arlington taking I66 or I395 (I usually do transit to work, but when I do commute by car, I pass through Arlco on I395) I don’t think anyone is calling for traffic calming on those , or even on GW Parkway (though that might make sense purely for motorist safety)

HOV restrictions on I66 forces traffic onto 50 and other non-freeway arterials such as Lee Highway and Washington Blvd. This seems to be preference of Arlington voters. Similarly, Arlington sued to stop the addition of express lanes on I395.

[dasgeh]

@JorgeGortex 53011 wrote:

Because, again, with respect, this is fantasy. You are not going to get people out their cars. Not with the distances that many people have to travel, and the time commitments they have. Some people manage, and I salute them. The majority passing through Arlington can not. (I live in Arlington, and I can not, right now.) Otherwise, they’d simply live and work in Arlington. Right? The commuters through Arlington are part of where are Arlington is. Its geography. And where we choose (or are lucky to) live means we have a choice to accept it, try to make smart and rational improvements, but to embrace the reality of where we live.

I think maybe my point at the end of my earlier post was lost: “This will not change and will only continue to be more so as the region grows (unless many new and innovative ideas are brought forth, and old ones thrown out, for changing this).” The key point here is the change in how we do business and work. i.e. tele-commuting. This really is the best and most necessary avenue for easing congestion on our roads. Until you remove the need to travel to work, the majority of people will need to travel via some form, and the most likely form is by car. With housing prices etc. its not feasible to ask someone in outer Fairfax, Woodbridge, etc. to commute in by bike. At least not everyday, certainly.

As for traffic calming, i.e. your example of Westover which I am quite familiar with… you can’t expect to do that along the entire stretch of road from border to border. In distinct places such as the spots in Cherrydale you mention, it makes sense. But not the entire length of the road.

I never said we should get everyone out of cars. But we shouldn’t prioritize making car trips through neighborhood aerterials faster. So, yes, some people will use Lee Hwy to get through Cherrydale (and Arlington) v. to a destination in Cherrydale (or Arlington). Fine. But I don’t think we need to minimize their drive time at the expense of the safety of the people who live in Cherrydale (or Arlington). This will encourage people passing through to (1) SLOW DOWN; (2) expect their through-trips to take longer; (3) think about alternative ways to make their trip; (4) substitute closer destinations where possible (e.g. not go to the Clarendon Trader Joe’s, but to a grocery store closer to home); (5) encouraging development of said substitutes closer to home (see how many more kid-friendly things are cropping up in ARL now that more families who don’t want to travel to FFX live in ARL); and (6) think about moving closer to the things they like to/have to do for which there aren’t substitutes. Some of this is long term. Not everyone will do all of these. But it will effect the aggregate numbers.

So welcome to Arlington, whether you’re stopping in or driving through. But please, slow down. Follow the law. And consider moving here (since we see you here so often).

[dasgeh]

@DismalScientist 53028 wrote:

HOV restrictions on I66 forces traffic onto 50 and other non-freeway arterials such as Lee Highway and Washington Blvd. This seems to be preference of Arlington voters. Similarly, Arlington sued to stop the addition of express lanes on I395.

Only during commuting times. I think the preference of Arlington voters is for people commuting through our jurisdiction EVERY DAY to think a little harder about their choice, and not to subsidize their choice to live far from work (in terms of reduced commute time).

Of course, if you’d like to go to the Zoo once in a while, I know a great Interstate that will get you there. It’s a quick trip from Western FFX.

The problem with the expansion of 395 hotlanes is that there was no study showing that they would reduce congestion. Since DC causes most of the back up on 395, adding more pavement is just changing the shape of the parking lot.

[lordofthemark]

@DismalScientist 53028 wrote:

HOV restrictions on I66 forces traffic onto 50 and other non-freeway arterials such as Lee Highway and Washington Blvd. This seems to be preference of Arlington voters. Similarly, Arlington sued to stop the addition of express lanes on I395.

nonetheless my understanding is that most of the people commuting by car through Arlco are doing so on I395 and on I66 (and GWP. Add US 50 into the mix if you like. No current plans I know for traffic calming or major densification on rte 50. So far the discussion in this thread is of washington blvd west of George Mason.

thats parallel to I 66, to Rte 29, and to the Orange (and soon Silver) line. I think deciding that moving commuters on it is a lower priority than making it work as a neighborhood street, is pretty reasonable. Note that does NOT mean through commuters couldnt drive on it – just they would have to put up with whatever that does to their speed. They will still have transit alternatives. Why would ArlCo want to make a neighborhood main street less walkable to make it possible for people driving from Fairfax to DC at rush hour have a faster commute?

[Amalitza]

@JorgeGortex 53011 wrote:

Because, again, with respect, this is fantasy. You are not going to get people out their cars.

G.

The US is much more spread out than Europe, and as a result is going to be more car-reliant. I would not argue this point. And in the short term it’s even more true– people make their choices based on the options available to them, and right now, car is the best option quite a lot of the time—in large part because other options are not particularly safe.

My argument with your post was that you seem to be dismissive of the importance of infrastructure in creating a safe environment. Infrastructure matters.

Someone who lives in Falls Church or Vienna and works in Arlington is much more likely be able to bike to work than their next door neighbor who works in Tyson’s– because they can’t safely get around Tyson’s. That’s not because the *people* are different in the two places. It’s because the infrastructure is. It’s because when most of what’s in Tyson’s was being built, nobody bothered to think that someday people might want to walk around or bike around there. And because it wasn’t planned for, it’s now nearly impossible.

[rcannon100]

An interesting talk on how to change people’s behaviors – and relevant to our discussion – the importance of changing people’s attitudes. According to Prof. Jeni Cross, it is a myth that you need to change attitudes in order to change behavior. Indeed, according to Cross, the opposite is true. If you change behavior, you will change attitudes.

[video=youtube_share;l5d8GW6GdR0]http://youtu.be/l5d8GW6GdR0[/video]

An interesting discussion of how you could make a community more bike friendly. And I would suggest that this is consistent that changing the architecture -> changes behavior -> changes attitudes.

[baiskeli]

@DismalScientist 53028 wrote:

HOV restrictions on I66 forces traffic onto 50 and other non-freeway arterials such as Lee Highway and Washington Blvd. This seems to be preference of Arlington voters.

HOV restrictions “force” people onto Metro, which is the preference of Arlington voters.

And let’s be fair – HOV restrictions invite people onto I-66 too, in half as many cars as they’d be in without the restrictions. And without them, I-66 would be packed with twice as many cars, “forcing” many onto 50 and other highways.

[KLizotte]

@rcannon100 55094 wrote:

According to Prof. Jeni Cross, it is a myth that you need to change attitudes in order to change behavior. Indeed, according to Cross, the opposite is true. If you change behavior, you will change attitudes.

Isn’t this the general premise underlying child rearing?

[rcannon100]

Child rearing was cited as part of her third myth.

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