tubeless valve leaking air

[hozn]

@Harry Meatmotor 166303 wrote:

for most of the rims I’ve dealt with at the shop, 2 wraps is good enough using stan’s tape. At home, however, I used 3M blue packing tape you can get on amazon and according to the innernets, it’s a teeny-tiny bit thinner than stan’s. So at home I wrap 3 wraps. Haven’t had any major issues yet between the two bikes in the house running tubeless, aside from burping in races and getting a bunch of crap in the bead because my GF corners at ludicrous speed.

Yeah, I use Tesa 4289 (bought on ebay), since it is the same tape as Stans but a fraction of the cost. I’ve considered using the blue 3M too, though I had one bad experience with blue tape (I think it was either the Pacenti or Velocity tape) peeling up after a few tire changes, so I’ve gone back to yellow.

[Tania]

I’m at a happy status quo* I think. The valve no longer seem to be leaking air (or not nearly as much) and I can still pump air into it when I need to (carbon rims and rocks!) and let some out when I need to (turns out those rocks are really wet and covered with wet leaves and I’m NOT going fast!).

* I haven’t bothered to see if I can twist it fully open or closed. I’m good with half open and usable.

[Harry Meatmotor]

OK – so I’m offishully done with tubeless for CX. Got taken out at Biketoberfest by a C3/Twenty-Twenty dude within 2 minutes of start, went down, and ripped the f@cking front tire off the rim. Race over.

DONE. WITH. TUBELESS.

That’s 4 races so far botched due to either burping down to rim-riding, or in the last/final case, general catastrophic failure. I’m typically running 25-27psi so it’s not a question of pressure.

old skool tubs, here I come.

[hozn]

@Harry Meatmotor 167266 wrote:

OK – so I’m offishully done with tubeless for CX. Got taken out at Biketoberfest by a C3/Twenty-Twenty dude within 2 minutes of start, went down, and ripped the f@cking front tire off the rim. Race over.

DONE. WITH. TUBELESS.

That’s 4 races so far botched due to either burping down to rim-riding, or in the last/final case, general catastrophic failure. I’m typically running 25-27psi so it’s not a question of pressure.

old skool tubs, here I come.

Which rims & tires are you using? I’m not a ‘cross racer, but it seems surprising you’ve had so many problems. Lots of folks do run tubeless, right? (I know November thinks it’s “ready”: https://novemberbicycles.com/blogs/blog/tubeless-cx-ready-for-prime-time)

But those are pretty low pressures for a 32/33mm tire, so maybe that just pushes the setup a little too far.

I hear of people rolling tubs off their rims too, but probably not with the frequency you’ve experienced.

[Harry Meatmotor]

@hozn 167269 wrote:

Which rims & tires are you using? I’m not a ‘cross racer, but it seems surprising you’ve had so many problems. Lots of folks do run tubeless, right? (I know November thinks it’s “ready”: https://novemberbicycles.com/blogs/blog/tubeless-cx-ready-for-prime-time)

But those are pretty low pressures for a 32/33mm tire, so maybe that just pushes the setup a little too far.

I hear of people rolling tubs off their rims too, but probably not with the frequency you’ve experienced.

Spec Axis 4.0 rims, 3 wraps of 3M blue packing tape, Spec 2Bliss Terra FR and Tracer RR, Stan’s sealant. 155lb rider @ 25psi FR, 26-27psi RR.

[Tania]

@hozn 167269 wrote:

I’m not a ‘cross racer

Yeah, but you really should be.

[hozn]

@Harry Meatmotor 167274 wrote:

Spec Axis 4.0 rims, 3 wraps of 3M blue packing tape, Spec 2Bliss Terra FR and Tracer RR, Stan’s sealant. 155lb rider @ 25psi FR, 26-27psi RR.

Welp, no idea re: those rims, but the tires sounds legit! (Why so much tape? [more] burping with fewer layers?) In general, I like Specialized’s 2bliss tires, but haven’t run anything smaller than 38mm in years now.

My money would be on the rims being the problem, but switching rims to e.g. Stans isn’t such a simple option.

[Harry Meatmotor]

@hozn 167279 wrote:

Welp, no idea re: those rims, but the tires sounds legit! (Why so much tape? [more] burping with fewer layers?) In general, I like Specialized’s 2bliss tires, but haven’t run anything smaller than 38mm in years now.

My money would be on the rims being the problem, but switching rims to e.g. Stans isn’t such a simple option.

Problem is the rims are tubeless ready, with good hooks and a flat bead shelf. And with 3 wraps of the thinner tape (thinner than Stan’s by something like .05mm), I figured I’d be good to run down to ~23psi. First race on the tubeless was Dirt Crit – 30psi out back – and I burped when the rear tire came off the ground over a small whoop @22-ish mph, and landed a bit sideways. I though it was a fluke, but the same thing happened at DCCX.

Roughly half of the folks racing cross on the team who are running tubeless have had issues (like, race-ending, or at least taking them out of top-10 contention), and that’s across different rims/tires. I gave it a whirl thinking the folks having issues were due to less than ideal setup/install. Just counting race fees from blown races due to tire mechanicals, the tubeless setup has cost me about $150. At least 3 people on the team have gone from tubeless to tubs in less than a season of racing on tubeless. The only setup that hasn’t seen any issues is Spec 2Bliss tires on Stan’s Grail. I don’t think I’ll ever be convinced to run Stan’s rims (long story…) despite being en vogue among the dirt/gravel cognoscenti. So far rims in the “not that great” column are (and, yes, I know most of these aren’t tubeless specific profiles): HED Belgium C2, Axis (Specialized) 2.0 & 4.0, Easton EA90, Velocity Aileron.

I will say, tho, I’ll probably be sticking with Spec Terra and Tracer. The traction is phenomenal, especially the Terra. Its pretty insane.

[hozn]

Ok, well Grails have been my benchmark rim, so perhaps that is why I am surprised to hear about people burping tires. Of course now I am using DT Swiss R460 rims which have been awesome, but at higher pressures for small tires or low pressure for 40mm tires.

We’ll see how they fare at Iron Cross this weekend.

[TwoWheelsDC]

@Harry Meatmotor 167290 wrote:

Problem is the rims are tubeless ready, with good hooks and a flat bead shelf. And with 3 wraps of the thinner tape (thinner than Stan’s by something like .05mm), I figured I’d be good to run down to ~23psi.

Genuine question…if the rims are tubeless ready, why the tape? Does the tape somehow allow you to run lower pressures?

[hozn]

Tubeless ready just means the shape of the rim is designed for tubeless (mounting, not burping, etc.). There are generally still holes for the spokes in rim bed.

There are also UST rims (or other tubeless rims) that don’t have holes in rim bed.

[TwoWheelsDC]

@hozn 167301 wrote:

Tubeless ready just means the shape of the rim is designed for tubeless (mounting, not burping, etc.). There are generally still holes for the spokes in rim bed.

There are also UST rims (or other tubeless rims) that don’t have holes in rim bed.

Aha…I just assumed anything labeled “tubeless ready” would not have the holes. But now I know!

[Harry Meatmotor]

@TwoWheelsDC 167302 wrote:

Aha…I just assumed anything labeled “tubeless ready” would not have the holes. But now I know!

There are a handful of manufacturers making tubeless carbon rims where the rim bed isn’t drilled for spoke holes, but the spoke bed is drilled for normal spoke nipples. To lace the wheels, you need to drop the spoke nipple into the rim through the valve stem hole, then finagle it into position. Just a tiny bit tedious. But no need for sealing tape.

[Tania]

The tubeless valves that came with my eThirteen wheels have a core remover built into the top cap.

[ATTACH=CONFIG]15688[/ATTACH]

[mstone]

@Harry Meatmotor 167305 wrote:

There are a handful of manufacturers making tubeless carbon rims where the rim bed isn’t drilled for spoke holes, but the spoke bed is drilled for normal spoke nipples. To lace the wheels, you need to drop the spoke nipple into the rim through the valve stem hole, then finagle it into position. Just a tiny bit tedious. But no need for sealing tape.

I wonder what the average number of installed spokes is before someone throws the whole thing out a window.

[Author]

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