Traffic Ticket

[Tim Kelley]

@unclejed 37279 wrote:

My suggestion for the future is to just filter up to the front of the waiting cars (which is legal) and wait for the light. I don’t mean that as a judgment on your previous decision to go through the red, it just seems like the best of the legal options. Transitioning from road to sidewalk to road presents its own dangers, including pedestrians and being less predictable (be a PAL!) for drivers.

The officer thought that even filtering was illegal (he said I passed two stopped vehicles). And why would I want to be sitting in front of vehicles that can accelerate from a red light faster than a CaBi? My experience is that this behavior invites conflict with cars. The officer recommended that I stick to the cross-walk, that is what I’m doing now.

There is some information on passing cars here: http://www.waba.org/resources/laws.php

I would rather be in front of a line of cars, rather then beside them, because I feel more comfortable taking the lane than sharing the lane.

[KLizotte]

@rcannon100 37276 wrote:

So Northern Virginia Regional Parks put up a vid of their 5 year strategic plan. It has a very odd scene in it – one scene of the WOD (the WOD is a NVRPA park) – where a cyclists blows through the stop sign. I posted the NRPVA video on my blog Windy Run and summarized some of the information — but noted how peculiar it was that the only pic of the WOD contained a cyclists blowing through the stop sign.

Well that version of the video is down. NVRPA has replaced it with a new vid. And guess which scene got changed? And as if to make the point – the cover image for the video is now that new scene of cyclists on the WOD (this time not blowing through a stop sign)

[video=youtube_share;yeWmerd6MlI]http://youtu.be/yeWmerd6MlI[/video]

In the situation pictured, it really seems like the stop signs should be facing the cars with caution signs posted on the trail. The cars pose more of a menace so they should have to stop (I know, heaven forbid we inconvenience drivers).

[jabberwocky]

@KLizotte 37285 wrote:

In the situation pictured, it really seems like the stop signs should be facing the cars with caution signs posted on the trail. The cars pose more of a menace so they should have to stop (I know, heaven forbid we inconvenience drivers).

The issue is that sightlines for cars freaking suck along most of the W&OD. You can’t see cyclists approaching the intersection unless your front bumper is practically in the trail. The trail would need to be redesigned in a lot of places for that to be remotely feasible.

The intersection pictured (which is in Herndon) is actually a 4-way stop. Both cyclists and cars have stop signs.

[DismalScientist]

@KLizotte 37285 wrote:

In the situation pictured, it really seems like the stop signs should be facing the cars with caution signs posted on the trail. The cars pose more of a menace so they should have to stop (I know, heaven forbid we inconvenience drivers).

Cars always are more of a “menace.” A rule based on the relative amount of traffic would say that stop signs (or, probably better, yield signs on the trail for minor streets) should be facing the direction with the least amount of traffic, be it the road or the trail. In Falls Church, the W&OD crosses many streets that have much less traffic than the trail.

[ShawnoftheDread]

Even assuming stop signs are legal on MUPs (bear with me), how is that stop sign properly placed? Instead of being on the right side of the traffic lane, as it should be, it’s on the left, completely on the other side of the “roadway.”

[baiskeli]

@ShawnoftheDread 37289 wrote:

Even assuming stop signs are legal on MUPs (bear with me), how is that stop sign properly placed? Instead of being on the right side of the traffic lane, as it should be, it’s on the left, completely on the other side of the “roadway.”

Maybe it’s meant to stop salmoning.

[unclejed]

@Tim Kelley 37278 wrote:

Dear Diary: [ATTACH=CONFIG]2130[/ATTACH]

Thanks for the follow up–it’s great to hear about the process, and I’m glad they didn’t come down too hard on you!

Crossing in the crosswalk, 4 feet to the right of where you rode before, now makes you a law abiding cyclist! And you’ll be more attentive to where you are positioned when going through a red light in front of a police officer.

Tim, why do you see this as “guy runs red light in front of cop”? As I have explained before, this is a strange crossing with a 4-way red light and 4-way walk signal (see photo).

What the ticketing officer was saying is consistent with VA code section 46.2-904 which states “A person riding a bicycle, electric personal assistive mobility device, motorized skateboard or scooter, motor-driven cycle, or an electric power-assisted bicycle on a sidewalk, shared-use path, or across a roadway on a crosswalk, shall have all the rights and duties of a pedestrian under the same circumstances.”

My only dispute was this seems like a technicality, no real safety improvement. The prosecutor and judge had no patience for my arguments, thought you might get the difference.

[ATTACH=CONFIG]2132[/ATTACH]

[jabberwocky]

@unclejed 37393 wrote:

My only dispute was this seems like a technicality, no real safety improvement. The prosecutor and judge had no patience for my arguments, thought you might get the difference.

The safety improvement is you’re more predictable to other traffic. Motorists and pedestrians don’t expect people to run a red light in the roadway, but crossing in the crosswalk with the signal is expected.

[jnva]

I would have blasted past that cop on my electric power-assisted bicycle so he wouldn’t have been able to stop me.

[ShawnoftheDread]

@jabberwocky 37395 wrote:

The safety improvement is you’re more predictable to other traffic. Motorists and pedestrians don’t expect people to run a red light in the roadway, but crossing in the crosswalk with the signal is expected.

This. Also, if you’re crossing at a four-way ped crossing but outside of the crosswalk, you’re potentially impeding the movement of pedestrians crossing perpendicular to (in front of) you.

[Tim Kelley]

@unclejed 37393 wrote:

Tim, why do you see this as “guy runs red light in front of cop”?

Why?

Because while I have sympathy for you as an individual (I understand that this is an odd intersection, and that going to court was probably a big hassle. Thanks for following up and reporting on how it turned out!!) I see one way to elevate the position of cycling in Arlington is through the enforcement of laws as they apply to all modes of transportation. I can’t expect better enforcement of red light running as it applies to motorists if I’m not willing to accept enforcement of red light running as it applies to cyclists.

No offense intended towards you, if that’s what you’re feeling. I’m sure you are a very nice gentleman, and I encourage to you to take part in more discussion on this forum!

[Mark Blacknell]

Side note: It’s my understanding that, in Virginia, points are not to be assessed against your driver’s license for infractions committed on a bike. I got this from a source who always knows what he’s talking about, but we’re having a hard time documenting the basis for it. It’s been added to my “to do” list. In the meantime, if you get nailed for something that could involved points in Virginia, make sure you tell the Court Clerk to note that it was committed while on a bike (apparently there’s a field in the system for exactly that).

[unclejed]

@Mark Blacknell 37401 wrote:

Side note: It’s my understanding that, in Virginia, points are not to be assessed against your driver’s license for infractions committed on a bike. I got this from a source who always knows what he’s talking about, but we’re having a hard time documenting the basis for it. It’s been added to my “to do” list. In the meantime, if you get nailed for something that could involved points in Virginia, make sure you tell the Court Clerk to note that it was committed while on a bike (apparently there’s a field in the system for exactly that).

I did mention this to the clerk and she said that DMV assigns the points so I have to take it up with them. The prosecutor also was not aware of this point even though I pointed this out to him.

[jwetzel]

Something I’ve always wondered about for if I ever get stopped by law enforcement whilst riding my bicycle is “Do I have to show a drivers license?” I sometimes don’t have it when I am out riding, or I usually have a different government issued ID with me I could show instead. Would that limit their ability to assign points to a bicyclist?

[PotomacCyclist]

A note about two-way traffic in that area:

Crystal Drive is in the process of being converted to two-way traffic for most of its length. The north section near Long Bridge Park could be converted by the spring. The middle section is already two-way.

The section between 23rd St. and 26th St. was repaved last year. That section was supposed to have been converted to two-way in 2012. But there was a delay with the signaling equipment for the new two-way traffic. That stretch of Crystal Drive might be converted to two-way sometime this spring, but as with any construction project, there could be further delays.

The section between 26th and 27th St./Potomac Ave. will also be converted to two-way traffic. 27th St. between Crystal Drive and Rte. 1 will also be converted to two-way traffic. But there is no time frame for this part of the project.

A mid-block HAWK signal will also be added on Crystal Drive between 23rd St. and 26th St.

http://www.crystalcity.org/area/transformation/two-way-crystal-drive

This will solve the problem of salmoning on Crystal Drive south of 23rd St. (By the way, I see A LOT of cars going the wrong way south of 23rd St.! So it’s not just cyclists who are salmoning there.)

I’m not aware of any plans to convert Clark St. to two-way traffic in the near future, other than the north section between 12th St. and 14th Rd. (There are long-term plans to demolish the elevated section of Clark St. and convert the road to two-way between 12th St. and 20th St. But this project will likely not be started in the near future, if ever. Maybe in a decade? http://sites.arlingtonva.us/ccpc/street-improvements/south-clark-streetsouth-bell-street-12th-street-south-to-20th-street-south/ )

***
After the renovations, the only section of Crystal Drive that will remain one-way is the southern end, from Potomac Ave. to the Rte. 1/33rd St. “intersection”. The southbound bike lane on Crystal Drive will extend past 23rd St.

There is also a separate plan to create a Transitway in Crystal City and Potomac Yard, in preparation for a streetcar later on. The map on the Arlington website seems to indicate that Crystal Drive would be converted to two-way for its entire length, but I don’t think that’s correct. I don’t see how they can make the section at Rte. 1 two-way. Or they might create a new two-way track on the east side of Crystal Drive, using the space where the bike path is currently located. http://goo.gl/maps/pRqhb

http://sites.arlingtonva.us/ccpc/transit-improvements/crystal-city-potomac-yard-transitway/

Maybe more than you wanted to know. But all of these changes will affect bike and car traffic around 23rd St. in the near future.

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