Traffic ticket on W&OD

[semperiden]

@Steve O 140842 wrote:

Check out the Coffee Club sticky, and you can meet some of us in person.

Thanks! I will try to join sometime!

[semperiden]

@Drewdane 140848 wrote:

There was also one of those portable light signs at that intersection a couple of weeks ago flashing a message for people to obey the law. I took it as a warning of stepped up enforcement to come.

It was a case of pure ignorance about bike laws. I have seen kids riding their bikes around that same neighborhood at the top of the hill, where there is also another stop sign. Does that mean that I could potentially go there, film them running the stop sign 10-20 times, take them to court and potentially ruin their lives? I don’t understand, but I guess my IQ is just not high enough.

[Drewdane]

@semperiden 140851 wrote:

It was a case of pure ignorance about bike laws. I have seen kids riding their bikes around that same neighborhood at the top of the hill, where there is also another stop sign. Does that mean that I could potentially go there, film them running the stop sign 10-20 times, take them to court and potentially ruin their lives? I don’t understand, but I guess my IQ is just not high enough.

I wasn’t trying to criticize you, just posting what I saw.

[semperiden]

@Drewdane 140853 wrote:

I wasn’t trying to criticize you, just posting what I saw.

I know. Sorry. The post was directed at our brilliant lawmakers.

[vvill]

@semperiden 140841 wrote:

I need to interact more with my fellow cyclists to know about these “word-on-the-street”. Reason for which I joined this forum.

Yeah, I literally had someone (@americancyclo) shout to me as I was leaving the EFC bike to work day pitstop that they were enforcing that stop. That’s all I heard of it, but I did also notice the extra signage as Drewdane mentioned.

[MRH5028]

@kcb203 140832 wrote:

I think the “official” route of the W&OD actually stays on the trail between 66 and the electric substation, then joins the road near East Falls Church Metro for a couple blocks, then rejoins the W&OD after crossing a bridge. Nobody goes that way on a bike because there are a few tight turns and it’s easier to just go down Van Buren.

This is the way I normally go out of habit. I didn’t know about the alternative route on Van Buren for a long time.

[Brendan von Buckingham]

@semperiden 140693 wrote:

I was wondering…if there were points deducted from their driver’s license from this.

In Virginia, [retracted, see follow up article] (according to this article which is easier to find than the code itself), but I’d like to be proven wrong on this one.

In DC, no. Bicycle infractions are specifically exempted from the points system (DCMR 18, Section 1200.6)

[rcannon100]

There is a local Arlington attorney who specializes in bicycle law
http://brucedeming.com/

[semperiden]

@Brendan von Buckingham 140910 wrote:

In Virginia, yes (according to this article which is easier to find than the code itself), but I’d like to be proven wrong on this one.

Thank you for the article. Their follow up article says that the courts have a checkbox to record it as a bicycle, which should not receive demerit points. The courts might record wrongly, in which case the DMV must be notified.

http://www.cvilletomorrow.org/news/article/17348-bike-tickets-in-cville-part2/

@rcannon100 140912 wrote:

There is a local Arlington attorney who specializes in bicycle law
http://brucedeming.com/

Thank you for the info.

[accordioneur]

I’m not clear on how one could get points on one’s license for bicycle infractions. A driver’s license, at least in Virginia, is a license to operate a motor vehicle. Virginia Code clearly distinguishes between self-propelled vehicles, which one must be licensed to operate, and those “… devices moved by human or animal power (§ 46.2-364).” In what way would it be valid to put non-motor vehicle infractions against a motor vehicle license?

Further, one is not required to have a license to ride a bicycle, nor is one required to carry ID when cycling. If you’re pulled over by the police for a cycling infraction, would you be within your rights to say that you don’t have ID on you? Could the cop make you produce ID? In practice, I’m not sure that prevaricating about whether you have an ID on you would be a smart strategy …

[Brendan von Buckingham]

@semperiden 140929 wrote:

Thank you for the article. Their follow up article says that the courts have a checkbox to record it as a bicycle, which should not receive demerit points. The courts might record wrongly, in which case the DMV must be notified. http://www.cvilletomorrow.org/news/article/17348-bike-tickets-in-cville-part2/

Glad you found that. That makes much more sense.

[dplasters]

@accordioneur 140942 wrote:

Further, one is not required to have a license to ride a bicycle, nor is one required to carry ID when cycling. If you’re pulled over by the police for a cycling infraction, would you be within your rights to say that you don’t have ID on you? Could the cop make you produce ID? In practice, I’m not sure that prevaricating about whether you have an ID on you would be a smart strategy …

What follows is, most assuredly, poor legal advice because I only have a JD on the internet:

At this point you are leaving cycling issues and dealing more with … other issues. You have no requirement to have photo ID on you most of the time (we assume; of course you have an ID on you, because driving culture!). Driving is an exception to this. You have no requirement to identify yourself to law enforcement unless they have suspicion (in some states) to believe you have done something illegal (or in this case, actually done something illegal). Which is to say, they will find a reason to be suspicious or to say you have done something illegal. Note that identifying yourself and showing ID are not the same. You can’t be compelled to show photo ID if it isn’t required (you are not operating a motor vehicle). You can be required to identify yourself.

Presumably, you could give them incorrect information. I have a difficult time thinking that would be worth the risk. I also suspect that a commuter has many other IDs on them (work badge, credit cards, insurance card, cell phone all come to mind) that would very quickly get you handcuffed if you decided to incorrectly “identify yourself”. But that would likely require an unreasonable search you have either silly consented to or an officer who doesn’t care. We are now down the road of real legal fun of, do you have the time and money to play?

In the same vein of thought, your child should always tell the officer they are 15/16 but that they do not have a license. Pesky helmet laws and such.

http://www.copblock.org/28042/let-me-see-your-i-d/
http://blogs.findlaw.com/blotter/2014/09/can-you-refuse-to-identify-yourself-to-police-officers.html
https://www.flexyourrights.org/faqs/when-can-police-ask-for-id/
http://www.bicyclelaw.com/p.cfm/legal-issues-for-cyclists/how-to-handle-a-traffic-ticket

[rcannon100]

St Pete gives a sermon before many of his religious experiences. In this sermon, he states
* We will obey the traffic laws
* In the chance that you encounter a friendly police officer, smile and say yes sir, no sir. Dont argue. Dont quibble. Dont give the cop a bad time. And there is a decent chance you will not get a ticket.

St Pete observes (and he can correct me) that pilgrims are more likely to receive tickets if they start fussing with the police officer – than if they act respectful, polite, and say yes sir, I was wrong, you are right.

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